Performance Anxiety

Hello fellow guitarists. 

I, in an earlier time of my life, played sport at an elite level sometimes playing in front of hundreds of people. I decided to take up classical guitar at the tender age of 66 and I have found that unlike in my younger years when I would look forward with excitement to performing, I now suffer massively with performance anxiety. And it is getting worse. Playing for friends, family and even my guitar teacher has become something that I would much sooner run and hide than put myself through. I play by myself and record some of my playing and am, for the most part, happy with my playing. But what I do in private I struggle to reproduce in public. In golf I think they call what I suffer from, THE YIPS. Whatever the term I certainly know that my confidence is virtually non existed. 

I have never taken any form on medication for performance anxiety, however I have heard that a natural supplement called PERFORMZEN is suppose to be very good and is taken by musicians. Has anyone heard of this supplement or have use this supplement? 

I have been trying all the non medicated ways like deep breathing positive thinking etc etc etc with zero success. I am sure I'm not new with this problem and would appreciate any advice given. 

 

Cheers

Michelle

111 replies

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    • Jacopo.2
    • 6 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Hey Michelle, first of all, thank you for sharing your experience. It takes courage to share our own inner world, thank you for that.

    When it comes to performance anxiety (PA), everyone will have their solution, but ultimately you’ll find the one that works for you. As a performer, teacher and coach, not only I have worked with my students on this theme, but I do too have had my share of PA, and sometimes I still have it today. We are all on the same boat!

    Before throwing yourself into any solution, in my experience it’s important to understand what PA is and why it happens. First and foremost is a totally normal body/mind response!

    Secondly, we can try to see the anxiety, not as the cause of you not being able to play in front of other people, but as a symptom of something else. The tip of the iceberg is the PA, and most often than not, people will try to manage the symptoms instead of looking at the roots (the iceberg below the water). I’ve done too my breathing exercises, meditation, etc…and whilst they’re good at managing the nerves, they never addressed the problem.

    You’re saying that you can play fine at home but not in front of others. My question for you could be: what kind of thoughts and feelings do you have in both separate situations? And that could be your possible starting point. Then see if you can find the why behind that.

    When playing for others, not only the competence can affect how you’re going to play, but also the confidence will play a strong role, even more than being able to play the piece.

    Some people are fine playing in front of others and being fine with mistakes, etc…what I always wonder is, why? Are they just some special human being, immune to PA, or have they arrived at another conclusion?

    Performing is an expression of ourselves and is a beautiful lifetime journey (with ups and downs). Don’t let the PA stop you because I’m sure you have some great music to share with us all!

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

       My only real adult sports participation is that I raced bicycles--didn't even finish one season before I was hospitalized with multiple injuries.  Certainly not at a world-class level, though one of my competitors went on to ride the Tour de France 17 times.  Yes I was nervous, but it was a blast, and very different type of nerves from performing.
      Apropos of that, you might also want to look at the youtube channel of Molly Gebrian.  Like Noa Kageyama, she is both a performer and a cognitive scientist (she is a violist). Her book "Learn Faster, Perform Better" reviews the cognitive science of learning and performing.  Many of the research papers she references are in fact from the sports world, and I think she makes a good case (with copious examples) of how the principles work in both sport and music.  The tough part is going to be applying all the techniques and principles she lays out, but I get the sense the book is worthwhile.
      https://www.amazon.com/dp/0197680070/

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I had a look at the book she has written and I went to her website and watched a few videos. She is impressive and what she said seems to make a lot of sense. Thank you for telling me about this lady. I am going to purchase her book. 

      • Ron.3
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Thanks for sharing the Molly Gebrian book reference - I already listen to Noa's podcasts every week and find many useful ideas. 

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

       She addresses performance anxiety, but is more focused on learning and memory.  She and Kageyama know each other (Kageyama wrote the foreword to her book).  You might also look at the youtube channel of the guitarist Diego Alonso (Diego Alonso Music), who covers similar areas, but of course as a guitarist is more focused on guitar-specific technique.  I mentioned him to Gebrian, and all these guys know each other.

      • Heidi
      • 3 days ago
      • Reported - view

       What you say here resonates with me, and is in the same "folder" as my own contribution to this very honest, useful and compassionate discussion.  

      When I was 12, I stood next to the piano at my recital and said, "Now I shall play____(whatever the piece was)."  When I sat down to play, it had all left my brain, my hands.  I tried humming to myself, picking out a few notes, and the longer I couldn't remember how to begin, the worse the forgetting became.  I had to go to my seat, never having shared. That experience has shaped my life with my beloved guitar, tho rarely at a conscious level.   At 73, I still play, every day, and with every little success with a piece, my love grows.   When I was younger, i did some performing with another fellow for weddings, social events, and small music festivals, and that helped me great deal, but playing alone for people is still hard.  What I want you to know is this.  I have not given up on myself and this is not to say I think you have.  The mere fact that you have instigated this conversation shows that.  What I understand is that if I continue to find little ways to safely share, even the smallest amount of this love, I chip away at the old memory's power diminish the pleasure of being alive.  I know I am going to slowly move away from that old story. 

      Currently 3 things empower me.  One is a resolve, which i am acting on occasionally, to ask someone I trust to help me with this by letting me come over and play for them.  Right up front I say what my goal is, that I want to get better at sharing without so much fear.  I only pick people with whom i feel very safe to be myself.  So far, everyone has been so terrific!  They are honored to be given the job!  Especially "useful" are elderly folk who are not all hung up on perfection, and are delighted to be serenaded.

      My second tool is a SLOWNESS, and this is part of what someone else described as "owning" the music.  When you practice, try playing very slowly, as if every note was a golden gem whose vibration lives in the heart of everything good in the world.  Forget about how you've heard others play the piece, how it's "supposed" to sound.  Feel each note express itself.  Oddly enough, this not only helps you move through the tricky passages, it helps with memorization (another of my demons)!

      Lastly, I keep an image in my mind of one of the most beautiful moments ever in my experience of someone playing. Years ago, at one of our community's "Local Folk Open Stage" talent shows, a homeles fellow known as "Banjo Mike" by people in our town, came up to the stage and sat at the piano. There was a long pause. No one had expected to see him there, and certainly had no idea what he might play. He said nothing; just appeared. And then he began to play, the simplest, totally improvised melody...slowly, but with intent, his fingers not at all hesitating to fully strike each key. It went on like this for about 4 or 5 minutes. Not a cough or rustle in the audience. And when he was done, he simply stood up and slowy walked off the stage. This is what I aspire to. I play the music as it lives most meaningfully in me, and I offer it as honestly and generously as I can, even if it is the simplest melody, fumbles and all. Currently I am working on this lovely piece, "Milonga del Mar," by Patrick Roux: https://youtu.be/e_lzxAoakAI?si=EjK69S3T9_I92SQU. Some parts are difficult, but, by golly, I'm getting through them, inspiringly, with the SlowDown approach!

      I hope this helps you find confidnce in your own way, and in a way that helps you enjoy your own aliveness.

      • Jacopo.2
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       Thank you for your contribution!

    • John_Mardinly
    • 6 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Got you beat. I have been playing for over 60 years and always had performance anxiety, although not in front of my teachers. At age 75, I got my first prescription for propranolol. It works. The only time it failed was when I forgot to take the pills.

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Propranolol is the one spoken about to help musicians overcome performance anxiety. I was looking at a non medicated supplement that is all natural called Perfomzen. Hope all is well and enjoy playing. 

      • John_Mardinly
      • 5 days ago
      • Reported - view

       If it is non-medicated, the only way it will help you is through placebo effect. You might as well eat a cup of yoghurt. My experience is don't worry about adverse side effects, I did not perceive any. Also, propranolol will only help your performance come closer to how you performed at home in private. You can't not prepare properly and then pop a pill to give a good performance.

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 5 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I tend to agree, though I have used a lavender oil supplement (not for performance) and it seemed to help.  Of course beta blockers are not primarily anxiolytics, but given that jitters and anxiety tend to form a feedback loop, I'm sure they help some (though I was briefly on metaprolol, another beta blocker, and that didn't do much for me).  Of course one may try drugs that ARE primary anxiolytics, like benzodiazepines, but that's not a rabbit hole people should be going down.

      • John_Mardinly
      • 5 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Wine works well also, and tastes good, but you have to balance the dose just right, and maybe you should not drive home yourself. Benzodiazepines? No way.

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 5 days ago
      • Reported - view

       As someone who used benzos more or less regularly for years, I agree.  They work really well, and they're very addictive--not to even mention the link to dementia.  I drink very little, but I have not found them effective for performance--at least not at doses that wouldn't likely make me fall off the stage.

      • John_Mardinly
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I have used gabapentin for neuropathic pain due to a spine problem that turned me into a zombie. I could not remember the music! Another neurologist tried me on cymbalta, and it was even worse. One thing that has helped, believe it or not, is age. When I was young my fingers would perspire terribly and 'stick' to the strings in an uncontrollable fashion. Now over 70, my skin has dried out and is rather slippery in a consistent, predictable manner which improves my playing quite a bit.

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Last month I attended a guitar seminar run by my teacher (Isabella Abbonizio) and Michael Newman and Laura Oltman.  Before the concerts Michael was handing out talcum powder to dry our hands.  I would have needed some kind of fairy dust that night.
      About 9 years ago I had a severe case of sciatic pain, numbness and loss of function in my left leg, which got me to give up the footstool.  A pain doc put me on Lyrica (pregabalin) which is related to gabapentin.  I couldn't tell that it did anything.  My late wife was once put on gabapentin for shingles--she couldn't tell that it did anything either.

    • Randy_Wimer
    • 6 days ago
    • Reported - view

    This is one of those topics that most of us can relate to in some form. My experience might be a bit different because I’ve been a working guitarist for my adult life. I’ve played solo and ensemble, classical and jazz, pit orchestras and audio wallpaper gigs. I never had nerves when I was young. I never experienced real performance anxiety until I was in my 40s. I was playing a solo recital opening with a movement of one of the Bach Lute suites. I was more unsettled than usual before the performance and just a few measures in it hit me: gut wrenching fear. My right hand trembled and the ring finger extended and I couldn’t use it. The piece disintegrated and I squelched the urge to run off the stage. Experience kicked in and I made a joke. I don’t remember what I said but the laughter broke the tension and I got through the rest of the concert, though not my best work. My ring finger never came back to full function until the next day.

    This started a 10-year struggle where every performance could be plagued by that fear. I worked with my Doctor, had some sessions with a therapist. I did try a couple of pharmaceutical interventions that were helpful in the short term but not a way of life. A couple of things pulled me out of it. First, I changed the way I framed my personal narrative concerning performance. I had gotten into the habit of thinking of performances as something I had to do – and in truth, if I wanted to make a living they were. But whenever I thought of an upcoming performance, I didn’t let myself think, “I have to play this show”, and substituted, “I get to play this show”. It may seem contrived but it helped change looming dread to anticipation. The other thing is a bit more esoteric but it helped me change my attitude. If you accept that making music is an art form, then where does that art exist? We don’t have a painting on an easel or sculpture on a pedestal. Our art is transient and exists only in the space between the artist and the audience. It’s the interaction between musician and audience that creates the possibility for our art to exist and in that sense the audience is an equal partner in our efforts. For me, embracing the idea of the audience as my partners, people who are there to share in this experience and somehow help me elevate my efforts, helped me turn the corner and I haven’t had any serious issues with performance anxiety for the last 15 years. I don’t know if any of this might be helpful but I’ve been doing this long enough to know you can’t predict what might be the key to help someone’s struggle. Good luck to you!

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

       What a brilliant reply. When I was playing squash at an elite level I felt that not only I possessed the desire to beat my opponent but that people were there to watch me do that. That was exciting and something I did not dread doing. But like you I was young and I believe that when you are young you are more confident. I have actually said to my teacher that I feel I have lost my nerve and I sometimes wonder if it is a "getting old" thing. However he assures me it is not. 

      I was away on holidays recently and whilst I was in a hotel having dinner two guitarist were entertaining the crowd with hits from the eighties. They were brilliant. Harmonising so well and playing effortlessly. It looked so easy and I was envious of how they played and how much fun they appeared to be having. But it was also inspiring. I spoke to them during one of their breaks and they were only too happy to talk. They said that they had been performing together for almost 30 years and their Fender Stratocasters looked every bit of their 30 years of life. 

      Thank you for sharing you guitar story. I have been inspired by the many suggestions. 

    • Amateur with too little time and bingeplayer with sore arms and fingers
    • Lars_KjollerHansen
    • 6 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Performance anxiety. Although many excellent posts it is a big issue for me also and I would like to share my thoughts too. I think everybody has it also most professional performers. Paco da Lucia on the day of his concerts just locked him self in with nailfiles and cigarettes (documentary film). Jason Vieaux told me he locks himself in 30 ministers even before performing for his son 7 years old classmates. An opera primadonna with 30 years experience at a private party left the table 30 min before her singing and when she returned after performing told me “Uh I always get so nervous when I shall perform”
    I think it is a question of getting used to performing and the anxiety. I have been an interventional cardiologist for many years with it’s moments  of challenging and lifethreatening situations. I told some of the nurses that I was pretty nervous before a guitar performance and they said “Lars , you are not able to be nervous”. But of course I have been regularly during or before procedures, but  I am just so used to “professional tension” that nobody else notes it. I guess it is similar for professional musicians. And for me performing a doctoral thesis in medicine is nothing compared to playing for your family. In a doctoral thesis you can just say “oh,maybe I did not express that optimally, let me explain more in detail”. You can’t do that with a played a musical phrase that came out suboptimal.

    How do we conquer: (my plan not fulfilled yet😉)

    1. I think acquaintance is important. Warm up leave room.  Enter your practice room make a performance . Sit comfortably relaxed breathe get relaxed play. Then similar and record it -only first take counts. Do it with your spouse or friend. Play easy pieces for friends

    2. You really have to be confident with your piece, “perfect”in first takes consistently. At my fathers funeral I played Gracias a la vida and I got struck by nerves and performed under par with shaky right hand.  Later I played Amazing Grace and Wayfaring Stranger on mandolin completely relaxed.  These are simple pentatonic melodies whereyou can Improvise if you loose something. So I am sure your confidence with the piece is a major factor.

    3. Most of the audience won’t notice you play below level. family and friends who I have performed “awful” in front of have said that they could not hear the difference between me playing and the professionals I have “forced” them to hear

    4. Medicine I m not sure it helps but with this sort of problems if you believe it helps it probably does. I have tried betablockers but did it help?

    5.  What’s gone for us adult learners is starting performing early as in Suzuki method. My 8 year old grandchild performed piano solo for 1000 people (in a concert hall where I saw ZZ Top and Dire Straits many years ago) and was not nervous. I was scared to death, and  she plays at family occasions regularly uninhibited. I can’t. It seems though that you can get performance anxiety at older age anyway as we may have more at stake and get more self-critical

    That was a lot of personal thoughts and experiences. I have been happy to express it in public since performance anxiety in doing what I like the most is a big issue for me (also)

    Lars

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

       You have a very responsible profession and it sounds like you are highly skilled at what you do. I have sometimes thought that people who excel in one field automatically believe that they can become highly skilled in whatever they do. I have yet to establish if that is true. But for the most part it has not been through lack of trying that I have wanted to succeed at playing great music on a beautiful instrument and I am sure you are the same. The one thing that has come out of this post is that performance anxiety is a problem experienced by many. 

      I have got a lot from the comments that have been posted so much so that  have written notes to myself with things to practice to help improve my performance anxiety and I hope that others have also gained some insight that may assist them. 

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 6 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I'm guessing that as an interventional cardiologist you likely perform no-nails.  I'm a retired dentist, and so for 45 years I couldn't let my nails grow; since retirement I can, and I find out my nails suck.
      Once I became experienced I only felt anxiety before new procedures I was unfamiliar with, but I still remember my first clinical patient in dental school (on my 22nd birthday, no less) and I was so nervous she had to calm ME down!
      Incidentally, had a robotic mitral valve repair (robotic) last year at one of the best hospitals here in NYC--the surgeon trained in Iceland.

      • Amateur with too little time and bingeplayer with sore arms and fingers
      • Lars_KjollerHansen
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Actually I play with nails although short. But each of the multiple daily disinfections of my right hand hurt my heart. Oh yes being a young doctor starting to learn procedures, scary, I remember the Weird Al Jancovic song , a reference to Madonna “ Like a surgeon for the very first time”

      And then a remark that probably should be kept between people who work in healthcare 

      ‘If you go on stage and fail it is worst case: it is you who die

      • magmasystems
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Didn't Weird Al sing "Like a sturgeon"? (For those of you who do not know, sturgeon is a fish that you put on a bagel in addition to lox. If you don't know what a bagel is, then you need to visit NYC as soon as possible for the best bagels!)

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

       He SHOULD have!

      • magmasystems
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

       My daughter uses robots every day when she operates. I told her that it is only a matter of time before AI will control those robots.

      • Amateur with too little time and bingeplayer with sore arms and fingers
      • Lars_KjollerHansen
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

      https://youtu.be/notKtAgfwDA?si=Uu1Yu6Ph18rHYY-t

      The surgeon you don’t want to meet. Weird Al

      • magmasystems
      • 4 days ago
      • Reported - view

       
       

      I go to this guy for all of my surgical needs:

Content aside

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