Performance Anxiety

Hello fellow guitarists. 

I, in an earlier time of my life, played sport at an elite level sometimes playing in front of hundreds of people. I decided to take up classical guitar at the tender age of 66 and I have found that unlike in my younger years when I would look forward with excitement to performing, I now suffer massively with performance anxiety. And it is getting worse. Playing for friends, family and even my guitar teacher has become something that I would much sooner run and hide than put myself through. I play by myself and record some of my playing and am, for the most part, happy with my playing. But what I do in private I struggle to reproduce in public. In golf I think they call what I suffer from, THE YIPS. Whatever the term I certainly know that my confidence is virtually non existed. 

I have never taken any form on medication for performance anxiety, however I have heard that a natural supplement called PERFORMZEN is suppose to be very good and is taken by musicians. Has anyone heard of this supplement or have use this supplement? 

I have been trying all the non medicated ways like deep breathing positive thinking etc etc etc with zero success. I am sure I'm not new with this problem and would appreciate any advice given. 

 

Cheers

Michelle

62 replies

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    • Performer, Teacher @Conservatory M. de Falla and member of Nuntempe Ensamble GQ
    • Ariel.1
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi,  !

    I don't know you outside of a few posts and have never seen you play but generally when I hear about performance anxiety in music (and I feel it's very different from sports) I relate it to these 2 things: a) not owning the music, and b) being unable to make peace with the fact of the constant process and instance of sharing. These two are quite related to each other and you can tell if they relate to you or not. 

     

    As an introduction to "a" let me say that I wondered many times why my friends who had to present master and doctorate thesis weren't caught by "stage anxiety" when they were performing their presentations. They had never had any kind of rehearsal or previous presentations or similar instances and certainly they did not entered their carreer thinking about "stage" as a requirement or a day to day bond whith their carreer. But, my answer to that was that when they were presenting they were actually sharing whay they had done for the last year and a half or two years or more. And their research was in the area they had found more interesting. They had spent the last years involved in discovering how they saw themselves through that subject. So they basically were sharing who they were and what they had done with their lifes in that time. So, there was really not a lot of reason to be anxious about it. They knew perfectly. It was their story. 

     

    With us, musical performers, it runs a little different. For starters, the music we play is seldomly composed by us. We are playing musical discourses composed by others, sometimes very far away in time. We are speaking the words of other people, not our own. To add up, the process of learning a piece many times is not helpfull. Many times we concentrate on playing the notes, cleanly and on time, but still feel stranged regarding what the piece should feel like, or what it means... Many times we expect results within a determined lapse of time and if that is not fulfilled we feel diminished by that. Many times we don't resolve problematic passages and those create a neural path of disstrust in our capacities to actually preform. Many times we try to play things that are outside our present reach and then the fears and uncertainties take root.

     

    So, my advice would be to keep well away of any beta-Blockers, supplements or medicines (unless prescribed after a full process of assesment by a physician or psychiatrist). Instead, I'd try first developing an emotional bond with some easier piece, where you can fell that you solve to your liking all the technical difficulties and dedicate your time to try and understand which emotions you feel that composition portraits and, then, try to think of a moment of your life when you felt clearly that emotion and then study to put as much as possible YOUR emotions, your life, into the piece. While you study the piece try to become involved in every note you play. Try to find and give meaning to every indication and note you play as a part of a musical discourse to share how YOU felt the same emotion that you think the piece portraits. In that way, you make other's music your own. When you feel the music is your own, you'll feel like you are playing a story about yourself. As if you were sharing with friends what you did yesterday...

     

    And "b"... we are not perfect. We don't have to pose to the others our perfect selves, we just share where we are now. This is who I am now, this is what I have to give. I have done my best and this is the result so far. There are always "things". That's part of who we are. There's no need for you to play perfect. The only thing that matters is that you feel the joy of sharing. Everybody will welcome that and it will be an honest share. It's always a process of growth. There's no blame in where we stand. Like when a toddler shares with you the poorly shaped plasticine with the hugest smile and says "Look!!! I made a dog!!". Who would question that?!

     

    I hope this helps! 

    Ariel

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Thank you for such a detailed reply. Very good advice.

      • BLaflamme
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Very good advice and very well said, I agree 100%! 👌👍

      • Performer, Teacher @Conservatory M. de Falla and member of Nuntempe Ensamble GQ
      • Ariel.1
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       glad to be of help! Let's keep in touch and let me know how it goes, if you want.

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Thank you again. You are very kind. One of the challenges of learning an instrument and music is that it is so far removed from the sporting field. The thrill of competition and the burning desire to beat your opponent are both motivating and driving forces to constantly want to improve. Before I started playing my guitar I would often say to people that you are either a sports person or a musician. You cannot be both. Basically because to compete at an elite level you need a killer instinct. That killer instinct is not required for music.. Unless I am missing something. Don't get me wrong, I love music and I enjoy playing music very much. That is the reason I continue to practice and play. 

      • Performer, Teacher @Conservatory M. de Falla and member of Nuntempe Ensamble GQ
      • Ariel.1
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       maybe this goes along the lines of what you are saying... you DO need SOME kind of "killer instinct" to be a top performer. The life you unfold is really hard. When I was younger I had two months in Europe when i was performing once or twice weekly. That ment, besides studying a lot of music, traveling a lot (planes, trains, hotels, taxis, baggages) and when that period ended I was completely exhausted, mentally and physically. I said to myself that that kind of life was not for me. And I was 25. I do not envy those how can do these things. I cannot. And though I sometimes still do (we were in the USA in April touring with my quartet. We premiered 11 complex pieces ranging from 6 to 10 minutes long each and 4 of them we recieved just 20 days before performance. We played 3 different 1 hour concert programs in 1 week and moved from California to NY in between) it's not for too long and I'm glad to be back home quite soon. So it does take a particular mind to be a top performer. It's not for anybody. But competition and sharing are quite different... feeling the study as a competition with own yourself can feel logical but it's not really productive, IMOE. For me it's more of an everyday surprise about discovering and rediscovering things things that make just a tiny little bit of a difference or open just another door to explore a little more further. 

      • Steve_Price
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       This has been such a good discussion. I've always thought a lot about the differences between sports and other competitions and performing on the guitar. When I was playing in different tournaments, I couldn't wait to get out there. Time couldn't go by fast enough until the day of the event, but with music, I would catch myself dreading it and looking for excuses to get out of it. One time, my teacher called me to tell me a recital was cancelled, and I had trouble containing myself, I was so happy, lol. It occurred to me that with sports, there is a set of parameters that everyone agrees on. I'm likely competing against someone at an equal level, and we all know the rules. The crowd doesn't make me nervous because they likely know the rules and what to expect. They just take in the game with no preconceived ideas, and their judgment of me normally ends when the clock runs out. With music, I'm trying to play my best conceivable interpretation of a piece, competing with people like Manuel Barrueco and Ana Vidovic. In my mind, the crowd knows this too, and they will judge me for all time for my poor choices of music, interpretation, etc. They expect perfection, so my score starts out at 100% and they deduct points for every flaw, no matter how minor. Or, in the best-case scenario, they really want me to succeed, but with every "mistake," they are embarrassed for me. It sounds crazy, but those were the kinds of thoughts I had.

      I realized this wasn't a fair assessment of myself, and it was disrespectful to the audience. Reframing both my view of myself and the audience didn't take away all of the nerves, but it certainly helped take the edge off to where it doesn't feel so adversarial. Now, I try to see it like this: I have worked hard to present this small gift to these people who took time out of their day to show up, and most are just happy to receive it in whatever form it arrives. Like the crowd at a game, they're just there for a little fun. 

      On the practical side, I quit trying to memorize music. I've seen David Russell read pieces in concert, and Michael Partington read his entire concert, so that's good enough for me. Especially since, as I age, my memory isn't at its peak, taking away the fear of memory slips is a big reduction in anxiety. I find it's really nice to have it as a friendly "teammate" on stage to focus on. 

      Thanks for posting this.

    • magmasystems
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Thanks for sharing your innermost feelings, Michelle. And take solace in the fact that you are not alone. In fact, I was just talking about my own performance anxiety in a Zoom meeting yesterday that was being conducted by the new Classical Guitar Community group.

    Let me use myself as an example. I was originally a classical percussionist, as well as a jazz-rock drummer. I never suffered from any kind of performance anxiety when I was younger. I played concertos in front of hundreds of people, and I was always cool, calm, and collected when I performed. I never even knew that there was such a thing as "performance anxiety".

    I took up classical guitar a bit more than 2 years ago as a retirement hobby. You and I are probably close in age. When I played my first Zoom-based Open Mic, I chose a very easy Carulli Waltz. It was something that I could play in my sleep. When I got in front of that camera, my hands started shaking uncontrollably. It was as if an alien took over my body. I played a few more Open Mics, with the same results. I even played a live Open Mic in front of a lot of guitarists at one of those Guitar Summer Camps. I played an arrangement of Eleanor Rigby, something that had a lot of finger movement. I played it perfectly in the rehearsal room 5 minutes before I got on stage. But once I got on stage, I sat on an unfamiliar piano stool, and I started playing at a much faster tempo than I was used to. And people told me that my right hand was shaking like a leaf.

    So now what I do is I avoid playing in Open Mics, preferring just to play for myself. I lean back on the sofa and just enjoy the sounds coming out of my guitar. It gives me a ton of pleasure. I can take my time learning difficult pieces without the pressure of having to perform them in front of anyone.

    I do play with a guitar orchestra ... the New York City Classical Guitar Orchestra ... and I am fine playing in that in front of people. I think that I get comfort in the fact that I am not performing alone, where everyone's gaze is fixed upon me.

    I will never take any kind of medication to feel comfortable playing. I have considered taking a shot of scotch or even taking a toke on my vape pen. But I have not tried it yet.

    You might want to consider playing in a duet. Having that other person next to you may give you more comfort. 

    As for myself, I think that I chalk my performance anxiety up to the fact that after many years of playing a certain group of instruments relatively well, I find myself with a new instrument that I do not have complete level of control over. People have given me all sorts of advice, but the one that works best is just to share the music with myself ... and with my wife who overhears me playing!
     

      • Performer, Teacher @Conservatory M. de Falla and member of Nuntempe Ensamble GQ
      • Ariel.1
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       well,... that's another cause for not feeling great when playing... that you know too much about music and are clear about what "should" sound ... ignorance is bliss after all. Expectations also play a big part. For each one it works differently. It may be that overconciuosness about the fact that you don't have the same expertice over the guitar that you did over as a percussionist/drummer. I think it's a pity that you had to sacrificed that instance of sharing. 

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I can relate to you so well. Yes I have been playing only for a few years and Caruli Waltz is a piece that I also play well. The shot of scotch has also been on my mind. I tip my hat to you playing in an orchestra. That is a great achievement. I certainly could not do that. However I feel that your advice on playing a duet is great advice. My guitar teacher gets me to record myself playing a piece that I am working on and send it to him. Even doing that I can relate to you shaking like a leaf as I shake like  leaf just recording myself playing music to send to him. Thank you for the reply and thank you for sharing your experience. 

    • Performer, Teacher @Conservatory M. de Falla and member of Nuntempe Ensamble GQ
    • Ariel.1
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

     thanks to both of you for sharing... it surely is a complex matter, not to be solved by a post. Surely, something must change for something to change. And it may take a while and some hard work looking inside? 

    • Norman
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    I’m 76 and came back to classical  guitar about eight years ask.   I enjoy hearing myself and figuring out the music.  It’s a great mental exercise.   I don’t perform.   Frankly nobody really wants to hear me perform.   If someone asks i impress them with Sor 5.   Nobody wants to hear a seven minute La Cathedral or a Bach Partitia.   Nobody even wants a second short song.  It’s like when i went to Africa, took lots of pictures, and then brought them to show friends.  After ten pictures of animals you could see they were bored.  My teacher wants me to be able to duplicate the music as written so that if i take s masterclass i won’t be criticized.  I don’t do master classes.  So, simply, you’re retired, you achieved something in your life, you’ve got nothing to prove to anyone except yourself.  Enjoy!!!!!!

    • Guilherme_Cruz
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    This might help:

    1) divide your piece in sections.

    2) Without warming up, record your PERFORMANCE of your chosen section once. No second chance.

    3) if you’ve played exactly like you wanted, great! Remove the section or phrase from the list, if not, now analyze your mistakes and practice as you usually do.

    4) Repeat the process for a least a few weeks.

     When I do this, the performing in public feels so much easier. Also, I try to play for people and with people as much as possible. Performing is about communication…

    • Nijwm_Bwiswmuthiary
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Wow, 👏👏👏. This community needs no validation from anyone. But I must say, the time, thoughtfulness and effort put by members like Ariel, Mark and Blaise into sharing their experiences and advice is just exemplary.

    What Michelle is sharing with us is something that resonates with me a lot. I don't want to sound patronizing by saying that she's brave in sharing her performance anxiety. But I think it can be difficult to admit sometimes that you have this difficult or unique aspect in your situation that you want to overcome. If anything, I'm speaking from my own experience.

    English isn't my first language and what I'm trying to convey might not translate into what I want. But I also suffer performance anxiety like Michelle. Whenever I record myself for a community concert, challenge, it terrified me. The moment I turn on the camera, my heart starts beating fast, my body tenses up, and my fingers try to press too hard like they don't want to let go.

    When I play to myself, it gives me these sweet dopamine hits and I couldn't care less about where the world is. But when I record myself, I just want to get to the end without any mistakes. Unfortunately, as I constantly think about avoiding mistakes, one correctly played chord is like a mini battle won, only to be faced with another more difficult battle, and it becomes overwhelming.

    There are better and more knowledgeable people who can give you better advice than me, Michelle. But I just wanted to add my own thoughts and share my experience as well. The last thought I'd like to put out is that we live in an 'age of perfection' where everything is seemingly perfect with YouTube, Instagram and social media and you have guitarists, musicians, artists etc who seem perfect in everything they do. Are they though?

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I've heard that many (perhaps most) of the videos you see uploaded have been more or less heavily edited.
      Last month I was at a guitar seminar my teacher runs in Italy.  There were a couple of young, very high-level players.  One young lady who is studying at Peabody with Barrueco said she had a lot of anxiety, but damned if I could tell--her playing sounded flawless to me.

      • Nijwm_Bwiswmuthiary
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Of course, perhaps I generalized too much about online content. There are absolutely incredible performers in all fields who seem unfazed and flawless under the spotlight.

      • Michelle_Roper
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       Thank you for sharing your experience. I posted this topic with some trepidation as I thought it may have brought about some level of criticism. But I was prepared for that should it happen as constructive criticism is, in my opinion, is at times, healthy. In saying that your reply is in no way a criticism. 

      I had heard of those musicians who have fallen victim to performance anxiety to the point that the affliction has been career ending. Whilst I have no desire at my age of being a concert guitarist there is a part of me that would like to play for family and friends and my fear of playing in front of people is a major road block for me at least achieving that goal. 

      My guitar teacher's answer is "just have fun" which is great advice but for someone like me I have to have goals and strive to achieve those goals, to have fun. Unfortunately or fortunately whichever way you look at it, to me setting goals to achieve is what gets me out of bed every day. Hence why I posted this to the forum looking for the fantastic advice I have so far received. Onwards and upwards. 

      Good luck in your guitar journey and thank you for your reply. 

    • Retired
    • Mark_Edwards
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    I'm the same. Used to play rugby in front of crowds. Can't play a note on the guitar in front of people, except my teacher for whom I play far worse than I can

      • Michelle_Roper
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       I hope that what is said by other guitarists in this forum can help you. Because I can relate very well to what you are saying. It is actually hindering me in my learning as not being able to even perform in front of the teacher slows the learning process down. I have to say that that is where Tonebase has been a blessing for me as the instruction videos allows me, in a relax state, to learn what I need to learn to play better. That's why I joined for life and I like the new AI generated roadmap for learning. 

      Thank you. 

    • Javier_Elizondo
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi everyone,

    I’m about the same age as Michelle, and I struggle with the same thing when I have to play in front of people—even family or friends. But I’ve noticed that sometimes I can actually do a good job. Every year I go to a guitar workshop for adults in Brevard organized by Adam Holzman, and I’ve seen some of my colleagues play without worrying too much about mistakes. They just keep going, and it still sounds great. That’s what I want to do. Playing more and more in front of people definitely helps. But I do not think is enough.

    Adam told me that if you run into trouble while playing, just slow down, keep going, and then get back up to tempo once you remember the piece or feel more confident.

    I also came across an article that gives some really helpful tips on how to practice and be better prepared for performing in front of others.

    Soundboard magazine Vol 44, No. 3, September 2018 The Psychology of Learning for Effective Practice, by Erol Ezsever
     

    There are others article there that can be of help. But this article taught me a few things that can be helpful for playing better and performing better. 

    Javier

    • Steven_Bornfeld
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Though I've "played around" with guitar for over a half century, I only got a classical teacher in late 2021.  I've had pretty severe performance anxiety too.
    Like Marc Adler, I was (but only briefly) in the NYC Guitar Orchestra--and playing with them caused anxiety too.
    But our local society has open mics, and I've done them, and some went kinda ok, but some were a disaster (the worst last month I asked the board not to upload it, it went so badly--others, bad enough, were uploaded to youtube--you'll find them on the Brooklyn Classical Guitar Society channel).  One of the society founders also had anxiety, and he took a course with Noa Kageyama, who runs the "bulletproofmusician" website.  It seems to have helped, so I signed up as well.  I'll let you know how it goes.
    Re: beta blockers--my teacher is down on them--she seems to think people give flat performances.  They are NOT anxiolytics, but they do decrease the jitters.  The only time I used them was last year after heart surgery--I suspect they would not have helped much with the anxiety.  But I'm also an avid cyclist, and I wouldn't have been happy cycling on beta blockers.  Good luck!

      • Michelle_Roper
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

      Please let me know how the course goes. I would be very interested. 

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       Will do.  I'm looking over the online course materials.  There is also a live online course, which takes place periodically.  I'm in the group that will take place Oct. 5 to Nov. 2.

    • Jacopo.2
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view

    Hey Michelle, first of all, thank you for sharing your experience. It takes courage to share our own inner world, thank you for that.

    When it comes to performance anxiety (PA), everyone will have their solution, but ultimately you’ll find the one that works for you. As a performer, teacher and coach, not only I have worked with my students on this theme, but I do too have had my share of PA, and sometimes I still have it today. We are all on the same boat!

    Before throwing yourself into any solution, in my experience it’s important to understand what PA is and why it happens. First and foremost is a totally normal body/mind response!

    Secondly, we can try to see the anxiety, not as the cause of you not being able to play in front of other people, but as a symptom of something else. The tip of the iceberg is the PA, and most often than not, people will try to manage the symptoms instead of looking at the roots (the iceberg below the water). I’ve done too my breathing exercises, meditation, etc…and whilst they’re good at managing the nerves, they never addressed the problem.

    You’re saying that you can play fine at home but not in front of others. My question for you could be: what kind of thoughts and feelings do you have in both separate situations? And that could be your possible starting point. Then see if you can find the why behind that.

    When playing for others, not only the competence can affect how you’re going to play, but also the confidence will play a strong role, even more than being able to play the piece.

    Some people are fine playing in front of others and being fine with mistakes, etc…what I always wonder is, why? Are they just some special human being, immune to PA, or have they arrived at another conclusion?

    Performing is an expression of ourselves and is a beautiful lifetime journey (with ups and downs). Don’t let the PA stop you because I’m sure you have some great music to share with us all!

      • Michelle_Roper
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       thank you for your reply. When I was competing at sport I would always get nervous but that nervousness was more excitement than fear and once the game had started my ability to focus on what I had to do took over and I found it easy to enter the zone. The zone talked about by many is rarely achieved on a consistent basis by those even at the top level. I was fortunate in that I could get into the zone easily and my focus and concentration levels were very high. I have tried to find a way to replicate that level of concentration and focus with music but alas it elutes me. But thinking about performance the difference between sport and music is chalk and cheese and what I have learnt is that skills learnt in one does not necessarily transfer to the other. Still I search for that magic moment when my ability to focus on the music and perform without fear appears. 

Content aside

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