Performance Anxiety

Hello fellow guitarists. 

I, in an earlier time of my life, played sport at an elite level sometimes playing in front of hundreds of people. I decided to take up classical guitar at the tender age of 66 and I have found that unlike in my younger years when I would look forward with excitement to performing, I now suffer massively with performance anxiety. And it is getting worse. Playing for friends, family and even my guitar teacher has become something that I would much sooner run and hide than put myself through. I play by myself and record some of my playing and am, for the most part, happy with my playing. But what I do in private I struggle to reproduce in public. In golf I think they call what I suffer from, THE YIPS. Whatever the term I certainly know that my confidence is virtually non existed. 

I have never taken any form on medication for performance anxiety, however I have heard that a natural supplement called PERFORMZEN is suppose to be very good and is taken by musicians. Has anyone heard of this supplement or have use this supplement? 

I have been trying all the non medicated ways like deep breathing positive thinking etc etc etc with zero success. I am sure I'm not new with this problem and would appreciate any advice given. 

 

Cheers

Michelle

62 replies

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    • Jacopo.2
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view

    Hey Michelle, first of all, thank you for sharing your experience. It takes courage to share our own inner world, thank you for that.

    When it comes to performance anxiety (PA), everyone will have their solution, but ultimately you’ll find the one that works for you. As a performer, teacher and coach, not only I have worked with my students on this theme, but I do too have had my share of PA, and sometimes I still have it today. We are all on the same boat!

    Before throwing yourself into any solution, in my experience it’s important to understand what PA is and why it happens. First and foremost is a totally normal body/mind response!

    Secondly, we can try to see the anxiety, not as the cause of you not being able to play in front of other people, but as a symptom of something else. The tip of the iceberg is the PA, and most often than not, people will try to manage the symptoms instead of looking at the roots (the iceberg below the water). I’ve done too my breathing exercises, meditation, etc…and whilst they’re good at managing the nerves, they never addressed the problem.

    You’re saying that you can play fine at home but not in front of others. My question for you could be: what kind of thoughts and feelings do you have in both separate situations? And that could be your possible starting point. Then see if you can find the why behind that.

    When playing for others, not only the competence can affect how you’re going to play, but also the confidence will play a strong role, even more than being able to play the piece.

    Some people are fine playing in front of others and being fine with mistakes, etc…what I always wonder is, why? Are they just some special human being, immune to PA, or have they arrived at another conclusion?

    Performing is an expression of ourselves and is a beautiful lifetime journey (with ups and downs). Don’t let the PA stop you because I’m sure you have some great music to share with us all!

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       My only real adult sports participation is that I raced bicycles--didn't even finish one season before I was hospitalized with multiple injuries.  Certainly not at a world-class level, though one of my competitors went on to ride the Tour de France 17 times.  Yes I was nervous, but it was a blast, and very different type of nerves from performing.
      Apropos of that, you might also want to look at the youtube channel of Molly Gebrian.  Like Noa Kageyama, she is both a performer and a cognitive scientist (she is a violist). Her book "Learn Faster, Perform Better" reviews the cognitive science of learning and performing.  Many of the research papers she references are in fact from the sports world, and I think she makes a good case (with copious examples) of how the principles work in both sport and music.  The tough part is going to be applying all the techniques and principles she lays out, but I get the sense the book is worthwhile.
      https://www.amazon.com/dp/0197680070/

      • Michelle_Roper
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       I had a look at the book she has written and I went to her website and watched a few videos. She is impressive and what she said seems to make a lot of sense. Thank you for telling me about this lady. I am going to purchase her book. 

      • Ron.3
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       Thanks for sharing the Molly Gebrian book reference - I already listen to Noa's podcasts every week and find many useful ideas. 

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       She addresses performance anxiety, but is more focused on learning and memory.  She and Kageyama know each other (Kageyama wrote the foreword to her book).  You might also look at the youtube channel of the guitarist Diego Alonso (Diego Alonso Music), who covers similar areas, but of course as a guitarist is more focused on guitar-specific technique.  I mentioned him to Gebrian, and all these guys know each other.

    • John_Mardinly
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view

    Got you beat. I have been playing for over 60 years and always had performance anxiety, although not in front of my teachers. At age 75, I got my first prescription for propranolol. It works. The only time it failed was when I forgot to take the pills.

      • Michelle_Roper
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       Propranolol is the one spoken about to help musicians overcome performance anxiety. I was looking at a non medicated supplement that is all natural called Perfomzen. Hope all is well and enjoy playing. 

      • John_Mardinly
      • 23 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

       If it is non-medicated, the only way it will help you is through placebo effect. You might as well eat a cup of yoghurt. My experience is don't worry about adverse side effects, I did not perceive any. Also, propranolol will only help your performance come closer to how you performed at home in private. You can't not prepare properly and then pop a pill to give a good performance.

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 19 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

       I tend to agree, though I have used a lavender oil supplement (not for performance) and it seemed to help.  Of course beta blockers are not primarily anxiolytics, but given that jitters and anxiety tend to form a feedback loop, I'm sure they help some (though I was briefly on metaprolol, another beta blocker, and that didn't do much for me).  Of course one may try drugs that ARE primary anxiolytics, like benzodiazepines, but that's not a rabbit hole people should be going down.

      • John_Mardinly
      • 15 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

       Wine works well also, and tastes good, but you have to balance the dose just right, and maybe you should not drive home yourself. Benzodiazepines? No way.

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • 4 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

       As someone who used benzos more or less regularly for years, I agree.  They work really well, and they're very addictive--not to even mention the link to dementia.  I drink very little, but I have not found them effective for performance--at least not at doses that wouldn't likely make me fall off the stage.

    • Randy_Wimer
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view

    This is one of those topics that most of us can relate to in some form. My experience might be a bit different because I’ve been a working guitarist for my adult life. I’ve played solo and ensemble, classical and jazz, pit orchestras and audio wallpaper gigs. I never had nerves when I was young. I never experienced real performance anxiety until I was in my 40s. I was playing a solo recital opening with a movement of one of the Bach Lute suites. I was more unsettled than usual before the performance and just a few measures in it hit me: gut wrenching fear. My right hand trembled and the ring finger extended and I couldn’t use it. The piece disintegrated and I squelched the urge to run off the stage. Experience kicked in and I made a joke. I don’t remember what I said but the laughter broke the tension and I got through the rest of the concert, though not my best work. My ring finger never came back to full function until the next day.

    This started a 10-year struggle where every performance could be plagued by that fear. I worked with my Doctor, had some sessions with a therapist. I did try a couple of pharmaceutical interventions that were helpful in the short term but not a way of life. A couple of things pulled me out of it. First, I changed the way I framed my personal narrative concerning performance. I had gotten into the habit of thinking of performances as something I had to do – and in truth, if I wanted to make a living they were. But whenever I thought of an upcoming performance, I didn’t let myself think, “I have to play this show”, and substituted, “I get to play this show”. It may seem contrived but it helped change looming dread to anticipation. The other thing is a bit more esoteric but it helped me change my attitude. If you accept that making music is an art form, then where does that art exist? We don’t have a painting on an easel or sculpture on a pedestal. Our art is transient and exists only in the space between the artist and the audience. It’s the interaction between musician and audience that creates the possibility for our art to exist and in that sense the audience is an equal partner in our efforts. For me, embracing the idea of the audience as my partners, people who are there to share in this experience and somehow help me elevate my efforts, helped me turn the corner and I haven’t had any serious issues with performance anxiety for the last 15 years. I don’t know if any of this might be helpful but I’ve been doing this long enough to know you can’t predict what might be the key to help someone’s struggle. Good luck to you!

      • Michelle_Roper
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       What a brilliant reply. When I was playing squash at an elite level I felt that not only I possessed the desire to beat my opponent but that people were there to watch me do that. That was exciting and something I did not dread doing. But like you I was young and I believe that when you are young you are more confident. I have actually said to my teacher that I feel I have lost my nerve and I sometimes wonder if it is a "getting old" thing. However he assures me it is not. 

      I was away on holidays recently and whilst I was in a hotel having dinner two guitarist were entertaining the crowd with hits from the eighties. They were brilliant. Harmonising so well and playing effortlessly. It looked so easy and I was envious of how they played and how much fun they appeared to be having. But it was also inspiring. I spoke to them during one of their breaks and they were only too happy to talk. They said that they had been performing together for almost 30 years and their Fender Stratocasters looked every bit of their 30 years of life. 

      Thank you for sharing you guitar story. I have been inspired by the many suggestions. 

    • Amateur with too little time and bingeplayer with sore arms and fingers
    • Lars_KjollerHansen
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view

    Performance anxiety. Although many excellent posts it is a big issue for me also and I would like to share my thoughts too. I think everybody has it also most professional performers. Paco da Lucia on the day of his concerts just locked him self in with nailfiles and cigarettes (documentary film). Jason Vieaux told me he locks himself in 30 ministers even before performing for his son 7 years old classmates. An opera primadonna with 30 years experience at a private party left the table 30 min before her singing and when she returned after performing told me “Uh I always get so nervous when I shall perform”
    I think it is a question of getting used to performing and the anxiety. I have been an interventional cardiologist for many years with it’s moments  of challenging and lifethreatening situations. I told some of the nurses that I was pretty nervous before a guitar performance and they said “Lars , you are not able to be nervous”. But of course I have been regularly during or before procedures, but  I am just so used to “professional tension” that nobody else notes it. I guess it is similar for professional musicians. And for me performing a doctoral thesis in medicine is nothing compared to playing for your family. In a doctoral thesis you can just say “oh,maybe I did not express that optimally, let me explain more in detail”. You can’t do that with a played a musical phrase that came out suboptimal.

    How do we conquer: (my plan not fulfilled yet😉)

    1. I think acquaintance is important. Warm up leave room.  Enter your practice room make a performance . Sit comfortably relaxed breathe get relaxed play. Then similar and record it -only first take counts. Do it with your spouse or friend. Play easy pieces for friends

    2. You really have to be confident with your piece, “perfect”in first takes consistently. At my fathers funeral I played Gracias a la vida and I got struck by nerves and performed under par with shaky right hand.  Later I played Amazing Grace and Wayfaring Stranger on mandolin completely relaxed.  These are simple pentatonic melodies whereyou can Improvise if you loose something. So I am sure your confidence with the piece is a major factor.

    3. Most of the audience won’t notice you play below level. family and friends who I have performed “awful” in front of have said that they could not hear the difference between me playing and the professionals I have “forced” them to hear

    4. Medicine I m not sure it helps but with this sort of problems if you believe it helps it probably does. I have tried betablockers but did it help?

    5.  What’s gone for us adult learners is starting performing early as in Suzuki method. My 8 year old grandchild performed piano solo for 1000 people (in a concert hall where I saw ZZ Top and Dire Straits many years ago) and was not nervous. I was scared to death, and  she plays at family occasions regularly uninhibited. I can’t. It seems though that you can get performance anxiety at older age anyway as we may have more at stake and get more self-critical

    That was a lot of personal thoughts and experiences. I have been happy to express it in public since performance anxiety in doing what I like the most is a big issue for me (also)

    Lars

      • Michelle_Roper
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       You have a very responsible profession and it sounds like you are highly skilled at what you do. I have sometimes thought that people who excel in one field automatically believe that they can become highly skilled in whatever they do. I have yet to establish if that is true. But for the most part it has not been through lack of trying that I have wanted to succeed at playing great music on a beautiful instrument and I am sure you are the same. The one thing that has come out of this post is that performance anxiety is a problem experienced by many. 

      I have got a lot from the comments that have been posted so much so that  have written notes to myself with things to practice to help improve my performance anxiety and I hope that others have also gained some insight that may assist them. 

    • Mark_de_Beer
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view

    I have no new or original things to say in addition to what has been said already, but I do want to say a big thank you to Michelle for so openly starting this discussion and to all the others who have given such personal, considered and thoughtful replies. 

    I so recognise issues such as tightening up and playing way below my ability even when it is only me recording myself or playing for my coach, let alone playing for other people.

    It has been very helpful for me to read through these posts. I will continue on my guitar journey and hopefully, given time, be able to play confidently and relaxed in front of others. Because I would like to share the beauty of the classical guitar with my friends and family (I have no professional ambitions). Thank you all once again.

    • Performer, Teacher @Conservatory M. de Falla and member of Nuntempe Ensamble GQ
    • Ariel.1
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view
     said:
    AndAriel Elijovich for me performing a doctoral thesis in medicine is nothing compared to playing for your family. In a doctoral thesis you can just say “oh,maybe I did not express that optimally, let me explain more in detail”. You can’t do that with a played a musical phrase that came out suboptimal.

     Two questions: do you feel there's no going back and playing again for your family? Do you feel it's a shame to play suboptimal? Maybe the answers to these questions are somehow in the root of the problem. 

      • Amateur with too little time and bingeplayer with sore arms and fingers
      • Lars_KjollerHansen
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       I have tried both, doctoral thesis only once though, so I know  from experience. 
      And Yes I hate performing suboptimal in any circumstance, but I have returned and played for family and friends several times.

      • Performer, Teacher @Conservatory M. de Falla and member of Nuntempe Ensamble GQ
      • Ariel.1
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       that goes to show that what I said initially was right...  you feel that telling what you own is easier than performing something you study that you don't own enough. Even for your family. Why do you hate performing suboptimal?? have anything you played ever been actually optimal?? I have played professionally maybe close to a thousand times in the last 35 years and I feel like maybe 3 or 4 were actually optimal performances... What does that say of me, then!! :-) 

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       Guitarists seem to be a pretty self-critical bunch.  I know that at our local guitar society, the highest-level guitarists perform very well, and come off the stage with a face like someone just stole their dog.

      • Nijwm_Bwiswmuthiary
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       That's me you're taking about😀 even though I haven't performed to anyone yet. I have this very stern inner critic in my head that messes up my playing when I record myself.

      • Steven_Bornfeld
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       When my teacher told me to record myself, she warned me that I wouldn't like it! ;-)

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 21 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

       Your comment about performing suboptimal is a big factor, I think, with performance anxiety especially in people who are driven to perform at a high level. I was told once by a boss that I needed to strive for perfection and whilst perfection is never attainable at least you will know that you are doing the very best you can at any given time. Those words have never left my mind and at times I think they haunt me. 

    • Performer, Teacher @Conservatory M. de Falla and member of Nuntempe Ensamble GQ
    • Ariel.1
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view

    Hi again! There's so many people sharing here. It's great that this came up. Really, we all owe  for starting this thread. And getting to know all your experiences has led me to many thoughts. My take on this thing goes along what  said. Most of you have expressed your PA in comparison to what you did when younger or what you did or do as a professional ... and that came after a lot of work at a more innocent age. I think you are putting too much preassure on yourselves.

      even mentions playing for your family as above a doctorate thesis presentation in regards to tension. Also, the Susuki method can be learnt at any age and involves a very detailed relationship with the pieces that favors the feeling of joy at performance. It's not just a way to teach kids to learn. It's a way to teach kids to enjoy.

    Of course, professional musicians also suffer from PA and there are measures to work on that
    : when i was studying in Italy, Luigi Biscaldi taught me to run up and down the stairs of the apartment until my heart beat was fast and my breathing was uneasy and then come to the guitar and steady as fast as possible (through breathing anfd concentration) both and start to play. This is very much along what Lars said...  and I wrote about studying deeply and connecting deeply with the piece you are playing: knowing it so much you can write the score from first to last note including all indications and fingerings, being able to play the piece just with your mind, with your hands in the air... certainly, those things help.

    I have been reading all your comments and learnt new things, for example about Noa Kageyama (thanks    ) and went to the youtube channel and, of course, it's all very interesting with no buts.

    I fear though that as  put it, this has much more to do with the way we frame it than with anything else. I have chosen to take it more relaxed (and I am a professional player). And I had to accept that my kids take time, my teaching takes time and my study is reduced by all those things... and though I have more than 30 years playing guitar I still learn new things every day, there's no optimal phrasing, there is no error free performance. At least for me. But also not always for the greats. As I said, I have heard many greats doing the same kind of horrendous mistakes as any amateur and they sound as horrendous as anybody elses. Plus, the more you know, the easiest something becomes a mistake when is not exactly as you thought of it. 

    The awarness that comes with knowing more should not ruin the moment of sharing. Also, it's possible that, as  put it, not everybody needs to share their process on a stage. Showing the work you do on your instruments has become very "institutionally goal oriented" as in "you have to show what you are working because you are paying for it and something must come out of this and it has to be shown that progress is being made" ... yeah,... welll... if that puts you in the situation of playing uncomfortably then it's not good at all.

    As I said before, this is hardly something to be solved by a post, but sharing ("sharing" is a key word) is being great and, lo and behold...!! we are all sharing our imperfections and nobody is booing us for it. Why can't that be the case with sharing at performance? 

    Playing perfect requires a lot of work. Playing perfect, I don't think you or I understand quite right what playing perfect means!! I mean... I know you have heard someone "play perfect" but probably, the performer went home thinking "neah,... that passage was not as tight as I thought it was". Somebody told the anecdote in another forum about Jason Vieux saying that to play perfect you must make all the mistakes while performing and then work a lot at home to mend them all. I think you are all being too harsh on yourselves by trying to achieve "perfect" or even "good". I think it's comfortably good to think of the intention to do maybe "better".

    And keep in mind, also, "perfect" does not prevent problems either... Great "perfect" performers have huge mental issues about it. 

    I am looking forward to keep learning from you and knowing you though this subject and all others. Thanks to all of you for sharing!!  

      • Michelle_Roper
      • 21 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

       You are definitely the cool head in the room. The one voice of reason. This is much appreciated. 

    • magmasystems
    • Yesterday
    • Reported - view

    Reflecting on the previous comments here, as well as on some thoughts that I have had for a long while, I think that one of the issues that contributes greatly to our performance anxiety is social media.

    Back when most of us were young, there was no such thing as "The Internet". There was no getting jealous of someone's physical appearance (as posted on platforms like Instagram and TikTok). There was no "life envy" after viewing someone's marvelous vacation experiences on Facebook. There was no 24x7 bombardment of content that made us reflect on our own lives.

    When I was studying marimba, the only way that I saw other marimbists play was maybe at a national percussion convention (PASIC), or maybe when the university invited the occasional guest artist. I didn't have much to gauge my own playing against, save for the comments of my professor.

    Now, we are faced with the onslaught of channels like Siccas Guitars and GSI. Every day, we log into YouTube and get a dose of near-perfect performances. Of course, most of the performances have been edited to some degree, with the guitarist sometimes being forced into miming to an edited audio recording. With so much perfection surrounding us, every little mistake that we make can be magnified in our own minds.

    I have been to a number of open mics where various performers have made hash out of the work they were playing. We feel some internal sympathy for the performer, knowing that we are fully capable of making the same hash out of our own pieces. At the end, people applaud, everyone says "Well done", and life goes on. And, a few minutes later, we forget about the performance.

    So why are we so hard on ourselves if we play a single wrong note? Why does that bad note worm its way into our subconscious and contribute to performance anxiety? It's because we are trying to hold ourselves up to a certain standard, and we feel like we let our audience and ourselves down if we are nothing less than perfect. After playing instruments well when we were young, or maybe having some good successes in our professional lives, we find it hard to accept nothing less than a Grade A performance when our turn comes.

    It would actually be educational if a platform like Siccas showed us some of the outtakes of the performances in order to show us that even the most polished performers are not perfect 100% of the time.

    (Sorry for the rambling ....)

Content aside

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