Week 2: Vienna in 19th !
Welcome to the Main Thread for the second week of the "Around the 19th Century Guitar World" challenge!
Vienna was a hub for all classical music in the 19th century. Home to Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert, among others, the classical guitar was alive and well in the 19th century. In Vienna in the 19th century classical guitar composers were heavily influenced by orchestral composers and had relationships with them; Giuliani played cello in the premiere of Beethoven’s 7th symphony and Mertz arranged Schubert’s Songs for Piano and Voice on guitar.
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Schubert / Mertz Stanchen
This is a piece I presented back in the Transcription Challenge and hadn't kept it up, so I am using this challenge to revive it. It is really difficult for me to get a balanced and effective interpretation. It has its moments, I suppose, though it is tough presenting this right after Barney's wonderful Sight Reading(!) of Lob Der Thranen.
I do think this is an improvement over my original recordings earlier in the year.
I have a Giuliani piece I tried to prepare for Vienna, but it is another tricky piece for me. Maybe I can 'Grandfather it in' to the Italy week.
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Jack Stewart great Jack, you're slowly becoming a romantic! As I said to Barney, no easy stuff and so much work to polish the end result, you're doing very well
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Blaise Laflamme I hide my head in shame.
Thanks, Blaise. Hope to have an update soon. -
Jack Stewart This is coming along nicely, Jack! It’s a very challenging piece. Personally, I would take it at a slower tempo, with more liberal use of rubato. Which is not to say what you are doing is wrong - it’s a matter of taste, I think. In any event, I feel you’re very close to ‘having it’. I look forward to an ‘update’, should you choose to post one.
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David Krupka Thanks David. This is still very much a work in progress that I hope (intend) to update during this challenge.
I agree that this piece can be very effective slower with more rubato (ie: Marcin Dylla) but Petrit Ceku's version (which my current recording is closer to) is also effective. I am not sure where I'll end up. I will explore different interpretations as I get a more solid grasp of it technically. In fact, I will often live with a piece for a long time and then hear something that will turn my head and cause me to re-evaluate my approach. That's one of the joys of this music.
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Jack Stewart Dylla and Ceku are both such fine players! I guess one of the hallmarks of great music is that it permits a variety of interpretations. Or is it that great performers can make a variety of interpretations work? A bit of both, I guess. (As for myself, l’d be happy if I could just get all of the notes …)
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Giuliani - Bagatelle Op 73 No 9 (one more time)
At the suggestion of David Krupka , I played this again, but a little faster and lighter, and with crisper dotted rhythms. David thought this might be more in keeping with Giuliani's intention, since he calls the pieces in the opus 'bagatelles'. I must say, I think I like it better, so I tip my hat in gratitude to David! Let me know what you think.
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Eric Phillips I for one like it a lot, Eric! I don’t know if others will agree, but I find it much easier to make sense of the harmonic structure at this tempo. By the way, I had meant earlier to comment on that awkward chord near the beginning of the piece. Your fingering is very sensible, and you seem to nail it every time! But I do wonder what Giuliani himself might have done. Two other possibilities occur to me. It could be played in second position using a ‘slant’ barre, with the first finger reaching back to the first fret of the first string. (I seem to recall this arising in the Grand Overture somewhere.) Another possibility is to play the F# on the sixth string with the thumb. Many ‘fingerstyle’ guitarists - and even some Jazz players - regularly employ such a technique. (Merle Travis used it extensively!) My hand, however, isn’t big enough to manage that comfortably on a modern classical guitar. (One more reason to get a period instrument!)
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David Krupka Thank you, David, for your helpful suggestion. Regarding that chord, it is the most difficult technical challenge of the piece. I tried your other possibilities. I'm not knowledgeable enough to guess what Giuliani would have used, but I do prefer what I'm playing. I tried the slanted barre, and it was just too finicky for me. Maybe with some more practice I could do it. As for using the thumb, the modern classical guitar neck is just too wide for my hand to do that. I do it occasionally on my steel-string (ex. if I'm playing a D/F#), but not on the classical. As for a period instrument, if you buy me one, I promise I will play it a lot!
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Eric Phillips great, Eric, it was a good suggestion from David. This is sounding very natural and in style. And you play it beautifully. Well done!
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joosje Thanks so much, Joosje! I love it when we can help each other make even better music.
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Eric Phillips wow... again a huge improvement in the interpretation, bravo!
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Hello everyone! Did Hannah send PDFs or links to the music she used during the Italy livestream? Many thanks!
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Helen Walker I haven't seen it yet. If and when she does, I assume it will be in the week three thread.
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Eric Phillips I will watch out for it!
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I promised two more of Giuliani’s Blacksmith variations, so here they are. Those are my preferred ones because they are a bit more theatrical and I try to play them that way. Sometimes a tiny bit over the top.? But it’s more fun like that. Others might find it’s not free enough. It’s a challenge to find the right balance in rubato….
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joosje You continue to do an excellent job with this set of variations, Joosje. I am really looking forward to hearing your version of the complete variations.
Years agoI had considered these variations not very significant but I have completely come around to liking them very much.
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joosje Without a doubt, those are my two favorite variations so far. As always, you play them with grace and sensitivity. I was especially struck by how well and naturally you varied the tone color. Are there any more variations left? (My apologies for not knowing the piece.)
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joosje that's sounding very nice Joosje. I keep trying this piece but give up after a while. I think the answer is to just concentrate on one variation at a time and really work on that. I'm in the process of working on the one I find the hardest, although I've not played it for a couple of weeks
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joosje cool! but I totally missed the theme and initial variations... so hard to navigate the forum when there are many posts... lets find it out.
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Jack Stewart Eric Phillips Derek Blaise Laflamme thanks for listening and comments. As said, these two variations are (by far) my favorite, and definitely more appealing in musical intensity. Eric, I’m afraid the two remaining are not so interesting. Even the last one -as a coda- is, though suggesting some virtuoso style, not really appealing to work on. That was the main reason for me not to keep this fantasy on my ‘repertoire’, though as a set it’s quite nice. I had spent some time working on it, that’s why I decided to submit some of it. Also, because it gives a different impression of Giuliani as a composer.
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joosje Interesting and beautiful interpretation of these two variations, Joosje. When I learned this piece (years ago, alas!) I took the ‘opposite’ approach: I played the third variation (the first here) much faster, and the minor one much slower. But I really like the way you play it. Thanks for posting this - I’d forgotten how good these ‘Handel’ variations are.
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joosje I really enjoyed these variations Joosje. Such lovely, sensitive playing!
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Nocturne No.2, Op.4 - J.K. Mertz
Before diving into the Italian week, I would like to share one more piece for the Vienna week. This is a beautiful piece, but I only practiced it for a few days, so I still couldn't play it very well.
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Wai Beautiful, Wai! Very nice articulation and phrasing of the melody. I don’t know if you’re aware of it, but what you played is actually just the first part of the Nocturne. (It is often performed on its own, as you have done.) There is in fact a second part, an ‘allegro con brio’ in 6/8 time. Although faster than the opening, it is of similar technical difficulty. I’ll attach the full score, in case you haven’t seen it:
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Wai Beautiful, Wai. I think that was as nicely played as I have heard.
I was unaware of an 'allegro con brio' second part until reading David's comment. I searched it out on YT (it's a bit difficult to find a recording). Personally, I don't think it adds much to the Nocturne. It is not nearly as effective as the 'piu mosso' at the end of the first nocturne (though that is not actually a second part).
Great performance.
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End of the Year Challenge: Finish Strong!
