BYWEEKLY UPDATES (Section One, Main Thread) - Submissions, Questions & Discussion
Welcome to the Main Thread for the first section of Santiago de Murcia's "Marizápalos"
- Make sure you've read the rules before replying (<- click)
- Watch the kickoff livestream for help with the first section!
Every day between February 23th (Week 2 stream) and March 16th (watch party), we are hoping to read your daily updates in this very thread right here!
Please use the following format when commenting (feel free to copy & paste!):
- Section you worked on:
- One thing you found easy:
- One thing you found difficult:
- (Optional): a video of you performing it!
- (Optional:) questions
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Worked on the first and second sections.
I need to play the rasgueados a bit more gently and make sure the direction is correct.
Spent some time researching the ornaments, which I think I'm beginning to understand. Individually they're fine but when they come one after the other I found playing them cleanly more challenging!
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Ron Yes, the ornaments are very tricky to perform in a satisfying way, that's true! But as I stated in the General Discussion Thread the literature suggests that it's fine to trill from the main note up, so if there's an f# written with a trill in the 3rd fret marked, it's spanish and italian baroque tradition to trill f#-g-f#-g-f#, at least that's what is stated in Brandon Ackers phenomenal masterclass on Baroque Ornamention!
And let me say, these trills are so much easier than the german/french tradition of approaching the main note from the trill!
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I’m working on the first 3 sections.
The basic notes and chords are not difficult.
Those ornaments are so %#&¥§ to get in place cleanly and smoothly. Even if just simple single trills. My experience is: it doesn’t get much better with practicing for now. My fingers just get more stressed. And the string tension and volume of our modern guitars don’t help. I try it with a capo in II to make it feel and sound a bit lighter and softer, but the higher pitch is disturbing. Maybe extra low tension strings.....
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joosje I can totally relate. I was thinking all those trills might give me tendinitis! LOL. I have a Cordoba GK Studio Pro which has a softer sound, less tension and a bit narrower neck but I’m not completely sold on it yet.
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joosje Keep up the good work, while always take care of relaxing your left hand! As soon as you tense up it's okay to let the hand rest for a bit and/or perform the first sections without ornaments! And as stated in the General Discussion thread it's absolutely fine (trying not to sound too academic about that, haha) to trill from the main note, those trills are so much more easier then what we are used in German/French tradition!
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joosje good job though trying to play a baroque piece with high tension strings is a definite challenge
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Nothing easy. Yesterday I worked on the first part. The strumming, I passed quite a lot of time trying to make The chords sound right and not like church guitar chords .... The ornaments .... are difficult, mainly to make them without muting the test of the notes of the chord and to make them in general . The easy part is that O love the piece so it is fun to practice :)
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Emma I will agree with on on what is easy. Even after posting the section on chords yesterday I still went back and worked on them again today. I moved on to the section with trills but it makes my hand tired pretty quickly. I need to find a way to play them with less stress.
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Emma I am so happy that you enjoy that piece, there's no point in practicing a piece that you don't love. What I found over the course of my life with the guitar is that there is almost always something to be found in every piece of music
The ornaments just need regular practice with enough relaxation breaks in between, always try that you don't tense up and find those moments of "micro" relaxation. I talk about this concept quite a lot in my "Left Hand Workout" with Villa Lobos Etude #3!
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Yesterday and this morning I worked on the rasguedos and the first section up to about bar 37. I also tried to match the score to the tab which was interesting as I've never really done that before. I think given my current understanding (which is very little) it looks a pretty close realisation. I have been playing the A in bar 37 on the 3rd string instead of the open 5th string as per the score. I assume it would have been that octave on the baroque guitar and I prefer the sound of the repeated A on the 3rd string to the drop of an octave.
One thing I found easy: looking forward to playing it.
One thing I found hard: playing it! The hardest part I found was in bar 21 shifting to the G chord with the D on the 2nd string although if I concentrate on keeping my 1st finger on the preceding C I can use that finger to support my hand as the other fingers move to the correct position. I can only do it slowly at the moment.
A bit like the joke about the football team - 'They thought they had a good chance of winning - and then the game started!'
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Derek good thinking! It would be also cool to try to play that a in 37 on the 4th string in order to imitate the double A that the baroque guitar would reproduce! But either way is fine, most importantly is that you looked critically at the score and decided to deriviate from the transcription based on the original manuscript, I love that!
Bar 21 is a tough shift to make it sound legato, we have to keep in mind that the baroque guitar was much smaller, so I guess it was easier to finger. We need to develop a good left hand agility and prepare that chord already while still playing the c. Having said that, I think it's no problem to accept a small break from the phrase, the melodic jump of a fifth doesn't need to be that connected
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Let's give it a try. This is a real challenge! It does not have to be perfect. It cannot be perfect after 2 days. But it won't be even after a week, I'm afraid, so here we go.....
First page , variations 1 and 2
I practiced first with Capo. It sounds 1 tone higher than the original and in those days the pitch was even lower....
But it makes the strumming a bit smoother and the ornaments lighter. So, for practice, I allow myself to do it this way.
I am not planning to get rid of my nails. Strings are new and high tension, so, there is too much nail sound. (Will have to edit this in reaper... another challenge ahead
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joosje Wonderful - looking forward to your recording of the full piece!
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joosje superb playing - I also practice the whole time but the ornamentations always kill the piece
. I will practice hard till Saturday or Sunday and have a try on recording this scrap
before next live-session........ -
Olli enjoy! The pleasure is in the practice. The devil is in the detail.....
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joosje you are off to a great start Joosje! I love it. Your finished performance will be lovely I’m sure! The trills are sounding good so far. I like your idea of practicing with a capo. A little easier on the hand I think.
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joosje I 100% agree with you
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joosje great! You have done a really good job in two days.
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joosje wonderful, great! I think the Capo is a great idea, it gives the sound a subtle softness as the Capo is much softer than the edge of the nut! And although the tuning is documentated as A-D-G-B-E, Luis Milan himself wrote to "tune it up as high as possible", so I think we are free to experiment a little bit
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martin I’ll keep that in mind, Martin. Also,I am still considering some changes (8va up), same as Derek was suggesting, there are many such places. The manuscript is a great source, but there are some inconvenient choices to make. I try to be consistent (I’m not German but still rather gründlich.
work in progress ....
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Beautiful Joosje, especially when the melody starts, the mordents, spot on very musical and well measured....
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Emma definitely! Good job joosje !
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Started working on the next variation. ( bars 55-73)
Easy: very beautiful melody line which makes it a pleasure to practice.
Difficult: the sequence of ornaments, almost overlapping
I stumbled over the trills on A string, (also D string btw) it does never sound the way I think it is meant to be. Too heavy and unnatural
Therefore I made a few changes. Same thing for the 2nd variation, so I might post that one again, when I’m ready.....-
joosje I agree with you about the trills on A string, especially one at 73. It is difficult to control the volume, too loud.
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joosje Oh, that's right, those deep trills tend to get super heavy, I am struggling with that, too! Too much Flamenco at the moment, haha!
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This is my attempted in practicing the new piece.
Easy: without ornamentations it is "easy" to play
Difficult: playing the Ornamentations - also difficult to choose the correct kind of Ornamentation. I am unsure about my decisions... but as Martin mentioned - only starting on Note Ornamentation in early Spanish Music...
