II. The Edit // JAN 18th

I hope you had an intensive first week of recording behind you, collecting different versions and takes of your very own playing in the workspace of our DAW!

After this live stream, you should be able to edit your recordings, thus creating a master take that inhabits the very best parts from all of your takes ✂!

Please use this thread if you have any questions concerning the workbook or general questions concerning The Edit!


Click here to access Session 2: The Edit // Jan 18th (Live!)

Find the other sessions here: Part 1 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5



Download the second workbook here


I will post the answers to the questionnaire on Jan 24th! 

After the live stream, submit your assignments by replying to this thread!


Answers to this week's questionnaire:

 

1. Why do we group tracks?

We group tracks for two main reasons:

  • When we record several tracks in mono to achieve a stereo sound  (using one mic source per channel), we need to be able to quickly apply all the main editing techniques two both of the stereo channels at the same time. This will save in the editing process.
  • Left and Right channel need to stay in their correct phase correlation. When L and R get "out of phase" several problems will occur: First, the track will sound weirdly shifted, as sound is coming into your ear from one side and out of your ear from the other side. Second, when summing in mono, your sound will become thin as due tue the phase shift frequencies might cancel each other out, resulting in a thin timbre.

2. Why should you make an edit plan?

We make an edit plan with our score to ensure maximum efficiency during editing, making the execution of the edit just a technical task. When you need to listen back to your whole take, deciding which measure to take from which recording, you are slowing down your editing process and will do edits simply because you can, not because you want to.

 

3. If you delete an item from your DAW, what happens to it?

Nothing, as the items in the DAW are just references to files on your hard drive. There is only one exception: Right after you stopped recording a take, Reaper will ask you whether to keep this recording or not. This is the only place where you can permanently delete a track from your hard drive.


Here is a link for a step by step instruction of how to implement 4-Point-Editing into Reaper, a workflow commonly used for classical music production but usually only to be found in dedicated DAWs like Sequoia or Pyramix.

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  • So, here's my recording. I've opted for Landslag I. 

     

    I'm playing on a Yamaha C40 II (saving big for an upgrade BTW) with Savarez 510-ARP Alliance Cantiga Premium medium tension strings. Recorded with a Zoom H4n Pro about 40 cm from the guitar.

     

    I messed up quite some takes (10 or so) in rather diverse ways. Tempo, too many repetitions and some foul notes. But decided to use them anyway as a proper challenge 😄

     

    I find that there's quite some noise in the recording and still have some issues getting the recording level high enough. Some transitions were also quite tricky. Enough room for improvement.

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      Barry van de Graaf Thank you for that wonderful version of Landslag! I always played that piece a little bit too fast, so hearing your version is really calming for me 🎧

       

      Your Zoom has quite elevated noise levels, try to make sure that you set your "Rec Level" on the side of the device so that your peaks land about -12db to -6db. If you are already at maximum rec level but still don't get proper input level, try to move closer to the sound source to optimize your signal to noise ratio!

      Other than that, wow, I really didn't recognize any obvious edits! You really mastered that challenge 💪

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    • Hi martin , thanks for the compliments 🎉 It's one of those pieces where I just feel it's really meant to be played slow 🤔 Took forever to edit it BTW but apparently it worked 🙂

       

      I'll definitely try to experiment some more with reducing the noise level.  Rec level was on max but that introduced quite some noise.  Should be fixable. 

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      Barry van de Graaf Awesome! 

      If you reduce the distance to the sound source by half, you will gain approx. 6db of levels!

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    • martin Should be possible I reckon. I'll have to be extra careful to not knock the mic over 🙂

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    • Igornull
    • Igor.2
    • 1 yr ago
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    Hi, Martin.

    There goes my homework, italian renaissance piece "Se Io M´accorgo".

    So easy to play, and so damn difficult to record! I did 5 takes and, at the end, used only to of them. Not that they were good enough, but the others were even worse🤣

     

    So far, these are my thoughts.

    1- I´m learning a lot, given the limited amount of time I have.

    2- Recording is TOUGH. In my case, I hear uneven rhythm, noisy nails, irregular pulsation on both hands, and the list goes on and on...That said, I prefer to look to myself in the mirror as objectively as I can. After all, the recording doesn´t lie. So, many things to work on.

    3- Editing is quite difficult for me at this stage. Even a simple task seems to last forever, and my computer sometimes decides to erase some items by itself. I suppose it´ll become easier, so I´m not concerned.

     

    Now I have 2 questions (and forgive me if they have already been asked):

    1- Will you explain how to record more than one guitar track (for duos, trios...)?

    2- Any comments on recording with acoustic guitar (metal strings and plectrum)?

     

    Finally: THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMITMENT.

    • Igor Really lovely.

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      Igor Recording is always like looking at your performance with a microscope! This is why I always advise my students to record themselves, because suddenly you hear so much more things! This is really an issue when you do a commercial recording with an artist and this artist hears himself for the first time, which ultimately means that the artist didn't properly prepare himself for that occasion, leading to possibly big frustration if he or she really doesn't recognize the performance! But a microphone never lies, it as honest to your performance as it can get! 

      I promise, your editing skills will improve! Nobody is born with all the keyboard shortcuts in their fingers, it just takes time and repetition. At first, we are overwhelmed with all the technicalities, but after some time, the techniques become very natural, you start to think about WHAT you want, not HOW to do something. It's basically like practicing instrument, really 🧙‍♂️
      Now to your questions:
      1) Recording is the same process, but you would probably (but not necessarily) used more mics to have more flexibility in post production. But I have recorded whole orchestras with only to mics, so you don't really need more than that. We only have to ears 😅 You would need to think more about the proper placement, since the two main mics define your sound with a greater impact. If one instrument is too loud or placed too far in the room, it's hard to balance them in the mixer afterwards. So a proper soundcheck is of the utmost importance!

      2) When recording acoustic guitar, I really like the position on the 12th fret since the metal strings have just a very lovely sparkle over there! If I need more body, I would try different mic positions, but generally, 12th fret works for me. Acoustic guitars tend to have more "boxy" frequencies that you would want to avoid, though!

       

      Almost forgot about your recording! That is a wonderful recording, I'm sure it can be enhanced with some nice reverb which we looked at in the 3rd workshop! I really couldn't hear any edits, though, congratulations to you! 🧙‍♂️ I would just recommend to get a little bit closer to the sound source since you have slightly elevated noise levels (going closer to the source means you can reduce your input gain thus reducing preamp noise) and a small room reverbation which doesn't mix well with this kind of music! 

      Thank you for this recording, I look forward to your next one :)

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  • Hello all,

     

    Here is my edited version of Klangbild 1 by Carlo Domeniconi.  I did 5 takes in all.   The final edited version has about 5 edits.  I edited a few places where my attack on the note was off or where I didn't hold the note quite long enough.  Though the final edit isn't perfect, I'm pleased with the result.

     

    My setup is as follows:

     

    Unfortunately I have only one good mic, a Blue Bluebird large diaphragm cardiod mic, so my recording is necessarily in mono.  I placed the mic about 30 cm from the 12th fret, but rotated it about 30 degrees toward the soundhole.  My guitar is an Alhambra Linea Professional with cedar top.  The strings are Savarez 540J Alliance High Tension strings.

     

    Let me know how you think it sounds.  The recording is only a little over a minute long.

     

    Thanks,

    Rick A.

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      Rick Ankney Wonderful! Awesome that you like your edit, since we tend to be the biggest critics of our own work, this is definitely a big step!

      The Bluebird is a very nice mic with a very clean output! I'd suggest to try the bridge side, since the sound tends to be a little fuller on this side. But other than that, this is a very nice recording!

      I think only recognized one edit, where you accidentally cut of the attack of a note, shifting your crossfade just a little bit to the will help with that!

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  • Hello, Mr. Zimny!

     

    I was wondering, could you please recommend some studio headphones in the following price range: 100-150 euro?

    I asked other people too and they recommended me the following products: Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 80 Ohm and Sennheiser HD-300 Pro. What do you think about them? 

     

    I am searching for something very comfortable and with a high quality (I am talking about the quality of the sound). Can you please tell me what specifications I should be looking for? 

     

    Thank you, 

    Andrei Pițu 

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      Andrei Pitu I have been working with DT 880 Pro for a long time (and even changed the left driver because it broke somehow) and am very happy with the quality. I guess that the 770 is even better suited for enabling informed mixing decisions. 
      I don't know the HD 300, but the HD 600 is a highly regarded standard among mixing engineers, so I guess the HD 300 is at least ... half as good? 🧙‍♂️🤓

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    • martin 

      Thank you for the advice :) 

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    • martin they might be indeed :))

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  • Hi Martin, here is my assignment with my marked score. Recorded with a Zoom H6, positioned about 20cm in front of the lower part of the bridge, pointing between the bridge and the sound hole. This seemed to be where I could get the best sound in the past, but now I'm not so sure. I realise the sound is a bit low in volume- insufficient gain in Reaper, I think.  I also realised after recording that I had both the Zoom and Reaper set to 44.1 kHz instead of 48 kHz. Is this important, and if so, why? I'm very grateful for any advice you can offer,

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      Barry Hi Barry! That is a great edit plan! I try to make my edit plan always as clear as possible, so that I could give this plan to another engineer and he or she can start editing right away (which actually happens quite a lot in the industry, there are recording engineers, sound editors, mastering engineers, so for some production there is a great division of labor. But 90% of the time I need to do everything).

      Concerning your gain levels: You need to adjust your rec level on your Zoom H6 (it's on the .. .right side of your device, maybe?)! If you adjust your gain in Reaper, you will bring up the whole noise floor, resulting in a lesser dynamic range. Optimising your signal to noise ratio is one of your key concerns when doing a sound check, so while you are setting up your mic levels on the Zoom, try to land between -12db and -6db!

      The sample rate tells you how often an analoge signal gets converted in one second, so basically the higher, the more faithful your signal transmission will be. However, there are certain standards: we use 44.1khz for physical disc distribution (and I think online streaming services are also taking 44.1khz files) and 48khz for working with video! So if you want to use your recording for a music video, it's best to directly record at 48khz.

      When you buy new interfaces, you can also see specs like "up to 192khz". While the fidelity of a recording increases with a higher sample rate, I actually never recorded higher than 48khz. The Sample rate defines, which is the highest frequencies that can be converted without digital artifacts with the factor (Sample Rate)/2 in frequency. So in 48khz, we still can faithfully recreate frequencies up to 24khz which is probably high enough for my dog to hear but waaay out of range for me, haha!

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    • martin Thanks, Martin. Very helpful advice.

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  • Hello Martin, 

    Here is my late first recording. I still don't have the proper boom for my microphones - it should be arriving Wednesday! So I had to settle for this. It's an AB configuration and they are spaced 57 cm from each other. That's the closest this boom will go. One mic is facing the bridge and the other is at around the 12th fret about 30cm distance from the guitar. It sounds a bit nasal and boxy to me. I did move the mics around a bit but this was the best sound I could get. I will re-record everything when I get the new boom stand. It will be fun to compare the sound when I re-record in OTR configuration. 

     

    I chose this simple piece because I'm just going for sound at this point and Romanza has arpeggios, a few rest strokes, and shifts. I wanted to listen for squeaks, attack, nail noise, etc and this piece provides all those things to try to dial in a good sound. I will record the entire piece when I get the new boom and am satisfied with the overall sound. 

     

    There is no edit so I guess I flunk that part of the course. Haha. I am sure there will be many opportunities for editing when I re-record it. 

     

    Equipment:

    Jim Redgate Cedar Top from 1997

    Old strings because I am lazy - lol

    Microphones: pair of Rode NT-5's

    Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen

    Room: 3.8 m x 3 meters. It  has a couch and chair, bookcase, several guitars on stands and a desk. There is no acoustic treatment. I am sitting center of the room about one meter from the wall where I have my computer on a desk. 

     

    Thanks and ciao for now!

    • Debbie I received the stereo boom today but the 3/8 doesn’t fit on my mic stand so I had to order an adapter that won’t arrive until 2/2. I can’t believe it 🤦‍♀️

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      Debbie Thank you for that recording and what a pity about that mic stand! I forgot to mention that there are mostly two different systems depending on the market, US is selling with 3/8" and European with 1/4" ... I guess?!? I have several adapters at home and always hope that I have the right one somewhere buried!
      That's a wonderful sounding Redgate guitar, and I fell you in terms of strings, haha! The boxiness probably comes from having your channels not panned L and R since your recording is still in Mono! Try to adjust the following two knobs to the left and right side (in my picture both are set to "center", that's probably how it looks in your DAW at the moment).

       

      Let me know how that works for you and let us here more of your recordings, especially with the new stereo boom!

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    • martin hi Martin! I just opened the project to double check the panning and it is panned here. Isn’t that strange? Did it un-pan itself in the rendering to mp3? Head scratch 🙄

       

      Thanks for the nice words about the guitar. I’ve only had it for about six months. I bought it from Australia via Reverb. The owner wasn’t playing it much and thought it should go to someone who would. I adore it! It was exactly what I was hoping for. Nice tone and playability. 
       

      I have loads of sets of strings to put on (Normal tension D’Adarrios EJ45’s but for one, I am lazy and secondly, I have ordered some carbon strings to try and am waiting for them to arrive. Also, with the adapter for the stereo boom. Being from the US I didn’t think about the different sizes.  
       

      I will be curious to hear the difference in the recording with the new carbon strings and correct mic set up.

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      Debbie Hi Debbie! Can you please check in the Render window (ctrl/command+alt+R) that your channels are set to "stereo" as well? If that's the case then we might need to dig a little bit deeper!

       

       

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    • martin both the original and mp3 are both set to stereo. I’m getting the shovel ready, lol

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      Debbie hm, this is very odd, can you send screenshots of the routing matrix (via alt+r) to [email protected]? If you could additionally send me screenshots for each channel of the window that pops up when you click on the "Route"-button of the channel in the mixer or the track header, that would be awesome!

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  • Hello Martin.
    I am very sorry to send the material with so little time. It has been impossible for me to do it before. Thanks a lot!
    I send you 4 audio tracks. Some are stereo and some are mono.
    The mics are Neumann KM 184 (I have used it for mono and stereo) and Scarlett Studio. I imagine that one is much better than the other but I was fine with testing.
    Tracks 1 and 3 are recorded in stereo. I have switched channels between them.
    Tracks 2 and 4 are recorded in Mono with the Neumann microphone in a different distance.
    I would like to ask if we think about recording for social networks is it useful to record in stereo, that is, if it will affect the quality of the audio since you will mainly listen to it on a mobile phone.
    Thank you very much for the course, it is being fantastic !!!

    • Emili  By the way, it is impossible for me to attend the session for work reasons but I can follow the course through the recording.
      Thanks a lot!

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