II. The Edit // JAN 18th

I hope you had an intensive first week of recording behind you, collecting different versions and takes of your very own playing in the workspace of our DAW!

After this live stream, you should be able to edit your recordings, thus creating a master take that inhabits the very best parts from all of your takes ✂!

Please use this thread if you have any questions concerning the workbook or general questions concerning The Edit!


Click here to access Session 2: The Edit // Jan 18th (Live!)

Find the other sessions here: Part 1 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5



Download the second workbook here


I will post the answers to the questionnaire on Jan 24th! 

After the live stream, submit your assignments by replying to this thread!


Answers to this week's questionnaire:

 

1. Why do we group tracks?

We group tracks for two main reasons:

  • When we record several tracks in mono to achieve a stereo sound  (using one mic source per channel), we need to be able to quickly apply all the main editing techniques two both of the stereo channels at the same time. This will save in the editing process.
  • Left and Right channel need to stay in their correct phase correlation. When L and R get "out of phase" several problems will occur: First, the track will sound weirdly shifted, as sound is coming into your ear from one side and out of your ear from the other side. Second, when summing in mono, your sound will become thin as due tue the phase shift frequencies might cancel each other out, resulting in a thin timbre.

2. Why should you make an edit plan?

We make an edit plan with our score to ensure maximum efficiency during editing, making the execution of the edit just a technical task. When you need to listen back to your whole take, deciding which measure to take from which recording, you are slowing down your editing process and will do edits simply because you can, not because you want to.

 

3. If you delete an item from your DAW, what happens to it?

Nothing, as the items in the DAW are just references to files on your hard drive. There is only one exception: Right after you stopped recording a take, Reaper will ask you whether to keep this recording or not. This is the only place where you can permanently delete a track from your hard drive.


Here is a link for a step by step instruction of how to implement 4-Point-Editing into Reaper, a workflow commonly used for classical music production but usually only to be found in dedicated DAWs like Sequoia or Pyramix.

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    • Peternull
    • Peter.3
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Martin

     

    Here is my take.  Like you I chose something simple and took 5 takes.  

     

    In the end this was recorded using the AKG P420 in Cardioid mode on the right channel and the Shure SM81 on the left channel.  the mikes were pointing straight on and 17cm apart.  They were at approximately 60cm from the guitar and pointing towards the body (image attached).  The shure needed the pre amp of the focusrite at about 3 o'clock  and the AKG was at about 12 o'clock to get and even -8db.  I then adjusted the master I have 4 crossfades in there.  Strings are old.  I am running out of time so stopped here.  In an ideal world I would have done some more takes and selected some better extracts..particularly for the repeated Gs in the second section.  But as an exercise this was enlightening, thank you very much.  I have put in two files, one with no FX and one in which I used a peak limiter.  I have no idea what I'm doing there but it seemed to smooth out some of the attack.  Thoughts please and, of course, I know we will be looking at this in the next session anyway,

     

    By the way, I just couldn't get near a sound I liked with the mid side arrangement.   

     

    Peter

      • Peternull
      • Peter.3
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter sorry for the excess images, i didn't think they had been uploaded...Shows how wrong I was.

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Peter Dear Peter, thank you for that submission! That is a very skillful edit, I don't think I was able to recognize any cuts! ✂ I might have some guesses, but I have heard worse and recognizable cuts in commercial releases, so congrats to you 🙌

      What is particular interesting is how balanced your recording sounds knowing that you used two different microphones. Especially the level differences from the L and R channel are very minimal:

       

      You could have even gained your mics a little bit stronger or move your mics closer to your sound source, you are a little bit soft in terms of levels. Your Peak Limiter reduced your spikes to -16db then, so you got even quieter there (but you impression that this smoothes out the track is definitely true, since the dynamic range got reduced by 3dbs which were only your loudest peaks). Usually we apply a peak limiter to normalize our output to something like -1db, but as you said, we will look at this closer in the third session!

      You recording can surely benefit from a frequency reduction around the 200-400Hz range, this will open up the sound more.

      Oh, and by the way, since you were very successful with your crossfades, try to apply fades at the beginning and the end of your recording, this will introduce the listener to the recording more smoothly! You can do this by dragging in from the upper half of the item edges!

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      • Peternull
      • Peter.3
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      martin thank you. I was also surprised by the similarity of the mics. I adjusted the focusrute very carefully but almost wondered if I was getting the same mic twice. Couldn’t see that though all the wiring and inputs were correctly managed. Weird!! 

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Peter weird, but ultimately very well done! 🎧🧙‍♂️

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    • Debbie
    • Debbie
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Hello Martin,

    I’m watching the playback of The Edit but I’m stuck because I’m using a Mac and I don’t know how to select two tracks. I’ve tried everything but since the Apple mouse doesn’t have a right and left click I’m totally frustrated. Do you how to select two tracks on a Mac? 
     

    thanks, 

    Debbie

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      • Debbie
      • Debbie
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Never mind I figured it out! You have to hold command and then select. Sorry, Mac is new to me. But if you can give the alternate way to do things on a Mac that would be greatly appreciated!

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      • Olli
      • Mr. Pizza
      • Saitenzwirbler
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Debbie dear Debby, i also use Mac only and my Mouse has right and left click ... maybe you only have to change some settings for Mouse in the options under system / mouse ?

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      • Debbie
      • Debbie
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Olli Really? That’s great news! I will google it and figure it out. Thank you Olli!

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Debbie You can into your System Preferences und look for Mouse, there you can define your secondary click!

      It should look something like that:

       

      Like 1
      • Debbie
      • Debbie
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      martin thank you Martin. Very helpful! By the way, will we be able to continue to make submissions and ask questions when the course is finished?

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      • Debbie
      • Debbie
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      martin I just finished watching the replay and had a couple of observations/questions. 
       

      I confess feeling a little disillusioned by how a piece actually ends up after all the editing. Gone are the days of Segovia who recorded pieces in a single take - mistakes and all. But the performance was honest. Perhaps that is why he is so often criticized nowadays because his recordings are compared to modern recordings with edits. I suppose one cannot record in single takes anymore because one wouldn’t stack up to everyone else who is editing out every single imperfection. To me, the imperfections are what make us human and not machines, or is our humanity now relegated to the concert hall while our recordings must be perfect? Well, that seems to be the case. Sorry for waxing philosophical and I hope you don’t mind my thoughts. 
       

      Okay, back to being practical! Rather than recording a piece several times, going through each take and marking what you do and don’t like, what about recording it once...or twice, and assuming one is happy with those takes, then just record those sections you want to replace? Wouldn’t it save a lot of time to only have to record a few measures here and there and then edit those in?

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Debbie Yes, of yourese you will be able to continue post submissions and your own recordings, I will create a dedicated forum topic for that, something like "tonebase homerecording corner" 🧙‍♂️🎧

      And yes, recording and especially editing definitely changed how music is being created, perceived and performed (there was basically the same development with the rise of photography in contrast to painting)! Technological advances are unstoppable and will affect the art form. 
      Oh, this is exactly how I conduct a recording. Usually I try to get 3-5 takes of a whole performance and then the messy work starts, getting 20-30+ takes on individual measures. Ultimately, this is just to save time and energy, no need to exhaust the musician with countless run throughs if it's just a matter of some bars. I even had recordings where we built the piece from ground up, meaning that we never recorded a full take (which I try to avoid, because  ... come on, give me at least one take).
       

      Like 1
      • Debbie
      • Debbie
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      martin Tonebase home recording corner sounds great! I will definitely be a regular participant.  
       

      You're right about progress and changing art forms. Even photography within itself changed from film to digital and even more advanced digital. It is true we must ride the waves of progress whether we like it or not 😜

       

      I’m happy to hear I’m on the right track with the process of recording. And I agree. At least one take all the way through shouldn’t be too much to ask! Haha!

      Like
  • Here it goes my recording,  On my discharge I must say I have recently started learning to play guitar and I have not a proper audio system (yet), I am 60 years old but I love learning!!.

    Guitar is an Alambra 5P

    Strings D'addario Pro Arté EJ46 hard tension

    Mic: Borrowed T´nB usb mic. (Diam. 16mm condenser) 

    Player: Novice

    Lágrima (without repeats) F. Tarrega

    Edited with reaper. 4 takes

      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      andres. iparraguirre Thank you so much! It's really inspiring to see what the love for the instrument and the curiosity to try something new can achieve, this is a very intimate portrait of your playing!

      Try to shift your crossfades with shift+dragging as close to a transient as possible and play around with different lenghts! We always try to hide a crossfade right at a "transient" (a high amplitude sound), so that we won't recognize the edit!

       

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    • martin  Thanks!!

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  • Hi Martin,

    Here is my sound-check recording. I've not started editing yet, it's taken me a bit longer to get to grips with everything in lesson 1 as I'm new to this! I am using a USB Hypemic, at a distance of 40cm, pointing at the sound-hole. I tried various positions as well as playing in different parts of the room, and this was the setting I preferred. I chose the same piece as you, as I was curious to compare the sound made with a professional set-up, with my more basic one. (Answer - must start saving up for some lovely stereo condenser mics!). 

    When using a single USB mic, would you duplicate the file and pan left and right, to create a stereo file? Or maybe there are some things that can be done in the later stages of editing to get a bit more bloom and roundness into the sound?

    • Jasmine Very very nice performance! Good tone production. I like how you vary the repetitions.

      What guitar do play and what strings do you use?

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Jasmine Thank you for your submission! The sound is very full with a lot of warmth, but pointing directly at the sound hole often creates a certain "boominess" which is masking the silvery quality of the guitar sound. I'd recommend to shift your mic a little bit off axis and point towards the bridge (the point where the energy of the strings gets transmitted onto the projection membrane -> the front of the guitar!).
      In order to create a true stereo recording you would need two recording. If you duplicate the track and pan both left and right, you would end up at the same point where you have started, as mono files get played back on the L and R speakers exactly the same! 

      Keep going, this is a wonderful performance of one of my dearest pieces 🧙‍♂️🤓

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    • martin Thanks for your advice Martin, I will try re-positioning the mic that way 🙂 

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    • Philip Thanks for your nice comments Philip. In answer to your questions, I play on a Tony Johnson guitar, using d'Addario strings

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    • Jasmine Thank you Jasmine. Could you also give the exact name of the strings? EJ44 or 46 etc.

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    • Jasmine Your sound is great!

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    • Olli
    • Mr. Pizza
    • Saitenzwirbler
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    martin Hello Martin, this is my attempt in recording with a sweet sound. I used two active-Ribbon Microphones ( Superlux R102 ). They were placed in the way you showed in the last Workshop.

    Mic 1 pointed directly to the string-holder. 

    Mic 2 doing the room in front of the guitar .Pan l and r with phase inverted on the right channel.

    ( as i mentioned before - when using two Rode-NT5 Mics in ORTF-Position - for my ears it sounds much to "digital", to "cold and accurate" 

    QUESTION: is it more useful to record with, for example, a pair of cardioid in ORTF position and doing much equalizing in the post production - or - to record with, for example, a pair of aktive Ribbon-Microphones ( can I also use them also in ORTF ? ) and get very warm sound without the cold high trebles ?

    I recorded - inspired from Mirceas last lifestream - a Soundtest Version ( not edited ) of Giulianis OP.48 No. 5.

    In Germany known as the "Harfenetüde".

    QUESTION: What ist you opinion about the sound ? What would you change 

    I like the sound of old Bream and Williams recordings - for example:

    https://open.spotify.com/album/3CO5Ky04TRewuU5lUjyMJ4?si=7v2BRp1jQUa5Ccxo1oD3WgThank

    or:

    https://open.spotify.com/album/5m1bfDda38iw8mbYKCgzue?si=n2OqnjAqSWOM6OQHAV8dbwyou so much.

     

    Thank you so much.

    Best Regards

    Olli

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