II. The Edit // JAN 18th

I hope you had an intensive first week of recording behind you, collecting different versions and takes of your very own playing in the workspace of our DAW!

After this live stream, you should be able to edit your recordings, thus creating a master take that inhabits the very best parts from all of your takes ✂!

Please use this thread if you have any questions concerning the workbook or general questions concerning The Edit!


Click here to access Session 2: The Edit // Jan 18th (Live!)

Find the other sessions here: Part 1 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5



Download the second workbook here


I will post the answers to the questionnaire on Jan 24th! 

After the live stream, submit your assignments by replying to this thread!


Answers to this week's questionnaire:

 

1. Why do we group tracks?

We group tracks for two main reasons:

  • When we record several tracks in mono to achieve a stereo sound  (using one mic source per channel), we need to be able to quickly apply all the main editing techniques two both of the stereo channels at the same time. This will save in the editing process.
  • Left and Right channel need to stay in their correct phase correlation. When L and R get "out of phase" several problems will occur: First, the track will sound weirdly shifted, as sound is coming into your ear from one side and out of your ear from the other side. Second, when summing in mono, your sound will become thin as due tue the phase shift frequencies might cancel each other out, resulting in a thin timbre.

2. Why should you make an edit plan?

We make an edit plan with our score to ensure maximum efficiency during editing, making the execution of the edit just a technical task. When you need to listen back to your whole take, deciding which measure to take from which recording, you are slowing down your editing process and will do edits simply because you can, not because you want to.

 

3. If you delete an item from your DAW, what happens to it?

Nothing, as the items in the DAW are just references to files on your hard drive. There is only one exception: Right after you stopped recording a take, Reaper will ask you whether to keep this recording or not. This is the only place where you can permanently delete a track from your hard drive.


Here is a link for a step by step instruction of how to implement 4-Point-Editing into Reaper, a workflow commonly used for classical music production but usually only to be found in dedicated DAWs like Sequoia or Pyramix.

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  • Hi Martin, you can put the steps here, to replace some small parts from the main piece😊

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Giuseppe Gasparini Hi Guiseppe, I will try!

      1) Select the item from where you want to take a part from

      2) move your playhead to the position where you want to apply your cut

      3) Press "S", this will split the item

      4) move your playhead where you want to make your second cut and press "S" again

      5) select the newly created item and copy them via ctrl/command+C

      6) place your playhead where you want to insert the new item and press ctrl+V. This will paste the new item into position

      7) now you can move the item back and forth or adjust the crossfade by dragging at the edges of the crossfade (shift + left click will move the crossfade, while dragging will prolong or shorten the crossfade)

       

      I hope that gives you an idea how to apply edits! It's actually just hitting "S" where you want to split your take and then copy and pasting 🧙‍♂️🤓 

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    • martin Thanks Martin, yes now I understand, I translated the post and following the video everything is easier, BIG👍😀

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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Giuseppe Gasparini Wonderful :) 

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  • Hi Martin

    Got as far as the edit plan so far. See link to PDF of hand written plan (it's a bit big). I started annotating in forScore which I'm new to and it stopped working due to idiot user error, now fixed with help of their support! But I can's share score due to copyright so manual plan best anyway.

     

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/19eyPSDjhpc6Ny64zEoPCLHjuRYVcplAs/view?usp=sharing

     

    I recorded 5 tracks (track 5 uploaded yesterday) and analysed at each bar with the occasional  note about individual notes. I'll look at those in more detail during the edit.

     

    Now to the edit....! Next post in about 3 months!

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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Mark Edwards Wow, this looks awesome! It's already late here in Germany, I'll definitely get back to that tomorrow! Thank you for your hard work.

      Haha, sometimes I have this feeling to when I start an intensive editing session! 💪🧙‍♂️

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    • martin Here's the outcome of editing so far.  It won't upload so here's a link:

       

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vjwqgGsI3Hc5RrXWXxUdDHjUO4KfLW6/view?usp=sharing

       

      Edit plan worked out pretty well. I'm going to review a few notes to see find something better if I have time. I found it less boomy with mic slightly lower and twice as far away so will do some more takes and try editing it with 4 point editing for a change. Not sure if I'll have time. May be better (also thinking of hiring a better guitarist as that would help!)

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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Mark Edwards Awesome, thank you for that! I am simply amazed how well most of you perform a technically challenging task like editing, truly inspiring! I think I only recognized one cut, you can try to hide that behind a transient. This is how edits have been made before crossfading was possible, look for a high amplitude peak sound (thankfully, almost EVERY sound from the guitar is a transient, because every pluck of a string rises quickly in amplited), I'm sure this will make your edit even better!

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    • martin Thanks Martin. I spotted it too but didn't know how to hide it. I'm afraid I still dont'. Can you perhaps explain a bit more about using a transient?

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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Mark Edwards Sure!

       

      Instead of making your transient in the middle of a fading note like here:

       

       

      shift the crossfade right in front of the next peak:

       

      We us a psycho-acoustic trick called "masking"! We can hide audio events before or after a transient due to the response time of our ears! 

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  • HI submit my recording of the Milan Pavana, (capo in III).  I very much feel like giving up for the mixing, editing, copy-paste. Its too complicated for me. I guess I just have to record many takes and choose the best. This was the third one, with my only 1 mic (meteor) about 50cm distance on my right hand side, slightly above the level of the bridge. I'll get better equipment, experiment with room/conditions and then try again later, as the course will still be available, I hope

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      joosje Noooo, please don't give up! 😢 If my explanation wasn't sufficient enough, there is plenty of material out there going into the details of editing! I highly recommend the YouTube Channel "Reaper Mania" which has countless videos on every topic of Reaper. Furthermore, on the Reaper homepage you can find a lot of resources! I can see that a live stream can sometimes be a bit overwhelming, while you can stop a YouTube-Video at any time and the information is more condensed there! 🤯

      Anyway, this is a wonderful recording and an even better performance of Luis Milan's Pavana! I can really hear that you put a lot of time and effort into this piece, and furthermore, while there are certain frequency issues in the 200-400Hz range which can be tackled via an EQ, this recording is a truthful rendition of your artful performance 💪🧙‍♂️ Love it!

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    • joosje Very nice performance!

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    • joosje This is so lovely, it makes me think I ought to give up! Don't you dare give up - I'd like to hear more of your playing

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    • joosje Bravo👋👋

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  • joosje I agree with Martin. Don't give up! I've listened to your take on Milan Pavana and I like it. Here's why: 1) I think you have a good tone production. 2) the recording is to my ears of quite good quality. 3) your musicality is good.

     

    Personally, I find the whole process of recording and editing quite daunting. However, I have come to the conclusion that since I'm not a professional classical guitarist, I'm not expected to release albums, I don't have the recording setup of big music companies I should just embrace my recordings and work from there. I should not compare my style with that of the legends or aspire to obtain the same perfection. Why, on one of John Williams' take on Leyenda by Albéniz, there is a clear mistake on the recording itself when he plays the rasguedo part with 2-finger tremolo. Did he not notice that mistake? I'm sure he did. But it is so encouraging for the rest of us mere mortals, that he did not edit it out.

     

    Also, since I've come to "know" Martin Zimny, I have a completely more relaxed view on recording. Perhaps more realistic. I'm just going to record with my sound and my style with my equipment and as I progress in recording and editing smaller pieces and develop my technique, I hope to gain more experience and move on to bigger pieces.

     

    Hang in there! Us amateurs have ventured into a fantastic world: learning the from masters themselves. This was not possible 5 years ago. Tonebase has brought the masters right into our living rooms. Let's use it!!

     

    P.S.: I think I hear a clock chime in the background at 1:03 - wonderful :-)

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    • Philip thank you for encouraging.words.  I really appreciate your comment as well as the opportunities offered through tonebase. And Martin is great in this field. This is for me just so complicated and time consuming. I prefer to spend my limited time on practicing and playing than struggling with interfaces. But I will make an effort and make some changes in the recording (such as replacing the clock chime fragment;-))

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    • Philip Hi!

      I completely agree with you. I’ve only been playing for a couple of years, so it’s hard when I compare how I sound with how some great players sound! If I keep comparing, I’d definitely stop playing. :)

      So, my idea now is to just play and keep improving, even if slowly.

      Tonebase has really improved my experience. I’m looking forward to recording something to get feedback from Mircea on one of the virtual masterclasses. Btw, one suggestion would be to have a session here at the forum for recordings by members for us to have some feedback from both the instructors and other more experienced members. :)

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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Philip wonderful words, 100% agree! I experienced the same development concerning recording. I studied 6 years classical guitar before I added sound engineering to my portfolio, so I knew exactly how hard a recording can be from the musician's side! The most important thing about the whole process is to stay as relaxed as possible, may it be a commercial recording for a label or a home recording project for personal use. We want to capture the unique sound of a musician, not create something surreal, perfect. Yes, we are going to polish and edit it, but we want to create a faitfhul rendition of a muscian's art. Your recording exactly did that, so every step from there will only bring you closer to your goal! I happen to be there along the way helping with some lessons and some tipps, but in the end, it is your performance that you are  recording, and that is something very, very cool!

      Recording technology will move forward, what has been impossible 20 years ago is withing everybody's reach, and withing 20 years there is probably no need anymore for recording engineers, so let's just have some fun and learn something along the way 💪🧙‍♂️

      Ultimately, even if we're not creating the new reference recording of the Chaconne, we will get to know ourselves better!

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    • Philip Well said. Chimes perfectly with my thinking (not the clock!)

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  • Here's my stereo recording of Greensleeves arranged by Siegfried Behrend.

     

    - Guitar: Ramirez R2

    - Strings: D'addario EJ46LP (lightly polished)

    - Microphones: 2 x C-2 Behringer Condenser

    - DAW: Reaper

     

    I changed my strings a few days before recording, but there is still some unwanted squeaks. It's challenging to reduce the squeaks. After recording the piece I noticed that if I altered my fingering, the squeaks were significantly reduced. A new version is planned.

    Regarding the microphones, I haven't yet decided on Line Audio OM1 or CM4. My Behringers are alright, but both only cost €50. Need better ones. Recording and editing is demanding, but fun :-)

      • Olli
      • Mr. Pizza
      • Saitenzwirbler
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Philip great recording - i love that piece... changing positions in that piece often ends in finger-squeaks. Is it possible to edit this squeaks ? 

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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Philip Hi Philip, thank you for that! First of all, this is wonderfully played and I am super happy that you enjoy the process of recording and editing!

      The position beautifully enhances the body of your guitar, I think you just missed to pan your tracks to the left and right channels in the mixer! Search for the Pan Knob and adjust your faders accordingly, this will open up the stereo panaroma and will surely benefit your recording!

      Concerning the string squeaks: There are - as always in professional productions - multiple ways to do that! What we definitely don't want to do is to apply a stationary gain reduction in this frequency range since it would also cost us sparkle and air in our recording. 

      But with something like a dynamic EQ, a multiband compressor or a De-Esser this will be a managable tasks which we will be looking at in the third session 🧙‍♂️🤓

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    • Olli Thank you Olli :-) I'm still experimenting with fingering to reduce squeaks.

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    • martin Thanks a lot Martin! Yup, I forgot to do the panning. Posting version 2: it only has the panning change to it. Not quite there yet with the new fingering. Takes some time :-)

      I'll wait with the EQ and compression until you show us how to do it properly. Looking very much forward to the 3rd session.

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