II. The Edit // JAN 18th

I hope you had an intensive first week of recording behind you, collecting different versions and takes of your very own playing in the workspace of our DAW!

After this live stream, you should be able to edit your recordings, thus creating a master take that inhabits the very best parts from all of your takes ✂!

Please use this thread if you have any questions concerning the workbook or general questions concerning The Edit!


Click here to access Session 2: The Edit // Jan 18th (Live!)

Find the other sessions here: Part 1 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5



Download the second workbook here


I will post the answers to the questionnaire on Jan 24th! 

After the live stream, submit your assignments by replying to this thread!


Answers to this week's questionnaire:

 

1. Why do we group tracks?

We group tracks for two main reasons:

  • When we record several tracks in mono to achieve a stereo sound  (using one mic source per channel), we need to be able to quickly apply all the main editing techniques two both of the stereo channels at the same time. This will save in the editing process.
  • Left and Right channel need to stay in their correct phase correlation. When L and R get "out of phase" several problems will occur: First, the track will sound weirdly shifted, as sound is coming into your ear from one side and out of your ear from the other side. Second, when summing in mono, your sound will become thin as due tue the phase shift frequencies might cancel each other out, resulting in a thin timbre.

2. Why should you make an edit plan?

We make an edit plan with our score to ensure maximum efficiency during editing, making the execution of the edit just a technical task. When you need to listen back to your whole take, deciding which measure to take from which recording, you are slowing down your editing process and will do edits simply because you can, not because you want to.

 

3. If you delete an item from your DAW, what happens to it?

Nothing, as the items in the DAW are just references to files on your hard drive. There is only one exception: Right after you stopped recording a take, Reaper will ask you whether to keep this recording or not. This is the only place where you can permanently delete a track from your hard drive.


Here is a link for a step by step instruction of how to implement 4-Point-Editing into Reaper, a workflow commonly used for classical music production but usually only to be found in dedicated DAWs like Sequoia or Pyramix.

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    • Davidnull
    • David.5
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Martin - here is a test recording I did - 2 AKG XLII panned like you said - any excess noise is my dog chewing on something or traffic

    :)

      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      David Sounds VERY good! The sound is very neutral and transparent, only the lower mids could use a little bit of fine tuning. 

      How far have the mics been? The phantom image seems kind of blurry, although your performace seems to be in the middle, so it sounds to me that one side has a little bit lesser energy in a certain frequency range. I should have added that the ORTF was designed for larger ensembles, so if you mic it a little bit too close, the differences in the left and right channels could get a little bit too obvious. Have you set both mics to the same polar pattern?

       

       

       Comparing the spectrum of both the left and the right I can see (and hear) that the left channel as more energy in the higher frequency ranges, this is what creates a certain lack of stability.

      But to be honest, this is nagging on a high level, the sound of the AKGs are fine and balanced in your setup! .... and I can definitely hear your dog chewing, haha!

      Like 2
      • Davidnull
      • David.5
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      martin the mics were 76 cm away and off to my right.  This would explain the left side having more energy. I set the mic stand down and reached out an arms length and hit record.  I should record again at 30 cm and have the microphones more in front? Thank you for your feedback and your wonderful attitude!!

      Like 1
      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      David Maybe you can try just to bring in the right side mic a little bit closer! Sometimes I am angling my stereo setups so that they follow the direction of the neck! Just play around and let your ears decide!

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  • Hello all.  Here is my recording of a simple tune by Carlo Domeniconi.  I recorded it using a single mike, a Blue Bluebird cardioid large diaphragm condenser mike.  I positioned the mike about 30 cm from the 12th fret with the mike rotated about 30 degrees toward the soundhole.  After trying several other mike positions, this seemed to give the best sound to my ear at least.

      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Rick Ankney Thank you for your recording, this is really a lovely piece, I have never heard it! When it comes to mono recording, I find myself going to the 12th fret from time to time! Oddly enough, I prefer the figure of eight over the cardioid pattern of my AKG when I record at the 12th fret!

      I find this setup particular interesting when I record acoustic guitar, since the position offers a lot of sparkle!

      Like 1
  • Hi Martin, what a pity, I did the assignment on Tuesday last week, but forgot to submit it to you to get earlier feedback. Here I am. I made a chart of 5 takes A,B,C, D, E and described and rated them. It is attached here :D The blue circles are the microphones :) They are cardioids.

    Like 3
      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Khiem Nguyen Wow, thank you, this is awesome!!! I definitely can relate to the description of your sounds, can you maybe recall how C sounded for you? I can imagine that I creates a kind of hole in the middle (the opposite of the lensing effect that occurs when you put two cardios next to each other pointing at the same sound source).

      For me it looks like that you preferred D, but I cannot see a big difference between A and D, where exactly did you point your take A?

      I can definitely see the downsides of take B, since the sound of a guitar mostly radiats from the front, especially from the bridge!

      Like 1
    • martin Thank you very much Martin for your feedback. :) About how the C sounded for me, cause my ears have not been trained, I can only say simple words that the left volumn is a bit weak compare to the right, so it is not balance. And it makes sense, since the left is about at 5th fret, and the right is about at the bridge. I did not adjust the volumn of the left up in Reaper in order to balance out the two channes. I have the setup of the C attached. The set up of the A is similar, just moving the left Mic closer to the rigt Mic. They form a 120 degree reverse like you see in the photo of C. ^^ Actually the drawing I posted on the table above has the diaphram of microphone inverse (left diaphram should be right and right should be left), they should have been drawn as what the photo of setup C suggest. 

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    • martin , here are my recording of take C, D, and E, and a photo of setup of C is posted above.  Could you please give me further feedback because I do not know how to describe those sound further and assest them rather than using simple words like thin or warm, etc, and I don't know anything else ^_^

    • Take A is very similar to take E, but take A has two Mics further to the right of the bridge, while Take E has the right Mic perpendicular to the bridge (but the diaphram is not pointing to the bride; it is with an angle, like take C. 

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    • martin this is my Take A, redrawn more correctly :)

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    • This is my Take A sound file :)

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    • I use a pair of Sennheiser MK4 condenser microphone with the following specs and frequency response ^^ 

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Khiem Nguyen Whoooow, awesome, such a detailed review of your process, that's a very cool source of information!  

      Take A) I definitely can see what you mean with boomy! It's not that the sound isn't totally out of balance, but because there is so much low end and a lot of sparkle from the strings, I miss the full body of the guitar. There is something lacking in the middle, frequency-wise!

      Take C) sounds a little bit disconnected, it feels a little bit as I would stand next to a mattress, as if some frequency don't reach my left ear which I would expect considering what is reaching my right ear!

      Take D) It sounds overall much more balanced than the other two takes, though it could benefit from a little bit more body! But overall I like the sound

      Take E) sounds very natural to me, as if the mics were a little bit closer together, the difference between the L and R channel niceley complement each other!

      I would recommend to turn your mics in a 110° and compare how L and R would mix then! You are currently enhancing the lens-effect, so high frequencies can get very directional while we get a blurry phantom image in the middle. Classic stereo setups are designed so no frequencies get out of control, resulting in a stable phantom image!

      Like 1
    • martin thank you very much Martin for your thorough feedback! :) I did some google search on lens effect- lensing effect, but I can find ony one or two articles about it. I will read them soon, and have to continue trying to understand it. And also about blurry phantom image, I need to understand this. :) Yes, take E and D also sound the the most balance for me.

      Like
  • I didn’t submit the 4 takes, but saved and analyzed them. I saved them as separate projects, though. That’s stupid I guess (after reading the second work book). 😉

    Like 1
      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      joosje You can always copy and paste between different projects, that shouldn't be a problem!

      Like 1
  • Hi Martin

    My inner clock isn't great and I don't want to play the piece with a metronome (Farewell by Assad). How best to manage inconsistencies in timing (apart from practice harder) or should I not worry and we can edit it anyway? Will post eventually - ony just finished d recording recording!

    Like 1
      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Mark Edwards I tackled this issue in the live stream, but to make a very long story short: It is possible, since tempo and metrom is never static in classical music, we don't need to exchange exact copies in terms of tempo!

      Like 1
  • Here's my first attempt. (sorry the piece isn't ready for public consumption but hey ho)

    Recorded using Tascam DR-05X mobile recorder, vaguely pointing at the bridge from about 30cm. Doesn't sound great to me so any feedback welcome

      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Mark Edwards Thank you for that submission! This recording suffers from a certain boominess, which I am not sure how this was caused (it could certainly be the sensitivity of the mic as well). Try to point a little bit more off-axis and see how that effects the sound. 

      I can see a very strong accentuation in the frequency range of 200-300Hz which usually causes a certain muddiness. An EQ cutting 2-3db in that range will definitely help!

      Like 1
    • martin Thanks Martin. Am I bit close perhaps? I'll have a play. Also the guitar isn't well balanced particularly. You need to tell me to buy a much more expensive one so I can justify it to my wife!!

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      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Mark Edwards yes, try different distances! Once you are too close, the so called proximity effect kicks in and boosts the basses (that's the late night radio show effect).

       

      Oh, and did I mention that you should by a much more expensive one? 🧙‍♂️🥳

      Like 2
  • Hi Martin

    Answers to your questions:

    1.Why do we group tracks?

    Actions taken on one will apply to the other so they will stay in sync. So, if you want to cut a chunk out of one take, it will do left and right channels together for example.

     

    2. Why should you make an edit plan?

     

    It allows you to focus creatively on what you want to take from where to get the sound you're after. Only then execute the plan so the edit is more of a technical process that doesn't get in the way of the creative process

     

    3. If you delete an item from your DAW, what happens to it?

     

    It stays on disk. You merely remove the reference to it in your project's track

    Like 1
      • martinTeam
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      • martin.3
      • 3 yrs ago
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      Mark Edwards Awesome, 100/100! 💪

      Sometimes the line in question 3 gets blurry though, i.e. if an edit is not possible, I need to go back to the score and see what could work. So one step will always affect the next one, but in general you nailed that questionnaire! 🧙‍♂️

      Like 1
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