"Beginners Forum" Invitation

I wonder if there are other newer classical guitarists who would like to discuss learning and repertoire. I am "technically" Grade 2 - which means I passed a Grade 1 examination, but I still feel so new to classical guitar. 

My beginning questions for anyone willing to join in this discussion:

1. Did you complete the Tonebase Beginning Guitar course, part 1?

2. Did you take any examination(s)? 

3, What's on your music stand? (sorry - stolen from Martin Z.)

4. What do you believe is your biggest challenge with classical guitar?

5. What piece(s) would you like to be playing in a year?

6. What guitar(s) are you playing right now?

7. What guitar would be your dream guitar?

Cheers! Michelle P.

22 replies

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    • Marius.2
    • 2 wk ago
    • Reported - view

    hi Michelle. maybe silly question but how do you take a Grade 1 examination?

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

       I did it online on another website. I know there are many different programs out there.

    • “Do or do not. There is no try”
    • Michelle_P
    • 2 wk ago
    • Reported - view

    Here are my answers to kick things off:

    1. Yes, I completed part 1 of the Beginning Guitar course, and it was more challenging than I thought it would be. Which was great. I need to be challenged.

    2. Yes, I took examinations at another online platform, and passed Grade One. I had to do a pre-determined Assessment and perform two pieces from a pre-determined List A and List B. It was very difficult and I really didn't think I passed. But I did! Yay!

    3. I have lots on my music stand - maybe too much. My goal is to learn a nice amount of repertoire by women composers. Sadly, there's not too much out there for someone at my level of playing. I've just started Maria Linnemann's Desiree and Chanson Du Montmartre and Angela Mair's Summer Forever! I've also been working on Tatiana Stachak's Kurpie Etude. Plus lots of traditional pieces. 

    4. My biggest challenges are finger independence and being able to produce good tone. I feel like I'm plinking and plunking along.

    5. I'd like to be able to play some easy arrangement of Gymnopedie No. 1 by Erik Satie

    6. Right now I'm playing a Hippner spruce over Florida rosewood (whatever that means) short scale (630 mm). I also have a Cordoba C9 parlor with a cedar top.

    7. My dream guitar would be anything handmade for me, solid wood. spruce top or double top over ??? maybe rosewood, maybe maple, maybe some unique tonewood. I guess I'm not quite sure yet. Short scale - perhaps 620 - with a 52 mm nut - a raised fretboard and a comfort armrest. And it would sound awesome.

      • Nijwm_Bwiswmuthiary
      • 2 wk ago
      • Reported - view

       Hi Michelle, I read your post and felt tempted to reply, even though I'm not a completely new guitarist. I hope you don't mind. Before I answer your questions, I also hope you don't mind me going on a tangent to explain how I ended up on TB.

      I joined TB about 3 years back after my 10 year old son started guitar classes in school, and for reasons I cannot explain fully ended up wanting to learn the classical guitar.

      Back when I was in my 20s (I'm 45 now), I used to noodle around with an acoustic steel string, playing a few chords and learning a few pop/rock songs. I wasn't even aware of classical music played on a guitar! Anyway, nothing much came out of my guitar playing as life and career took over.

      Decades later, thanks to YouTube and algorithms, I started to listen to the recordings of pros like Ana Vidovic and Alexandra Wittingham playing Recuerdos or Layenda. Something in my brain clicked and I decided to explore more and learn classical guitar. I watched a few instructional videos on YouTube and immediately tried to learn Recuerdos! Little did I realize at that time that tremolo is one of the toughest technique haha!

      Learning classical guitar from India is difficult because we don't have much of a western classical music tradition here. So, there aren't many professional teachers or academic institutions based around classical guitar. After exploring learning avenues, I ultimately ended here because of the impressive roster of instructors.

      To answer your questions:

      1. I did finish the beginning guitar course part 1 and I think 2 as well. I also started to practice a few of the 120 Giuliani exercises. The first few months of learning was painfully slow. But I also tried to learn a few Brouwer etudes to improve my technique.

      I also watched tons of recorded livestreams that were on beginner topics like arpeggios and LH technique, finger independence. Navigating TB materials is sometimes a bit tricky I feel as the courses are not structured in a strictly progressive and academic manner. Many of the technical challenges are addressed through pieces of music, while there are dedicated courses on themes like musicality, phrasing, tone production or techniques like barre.

      Since I joined I've improved a lot using the materials here. A few months back, I had also tried the TB coaching program for 90 days (it's premium+ now, I believe)

      Do you have a personal one on one teacher? I think it's always very very helpful to have one for various reasons. If I can share a piece of advice, based from my learning experience- trust the process, be patient and meticulous and you'll see the progress. Initially, the learning curve might be slow, but once you learn a few fundamentals and improve your technique, you'll be pleasantly surprised with your own progress!

      2. I haven't taken any exams or tests, mostly because they're not locally available here or not affordable for me. Obviously, taking exams will force you to adopt a more structured way of learnin. Passing grades and getting certificates will also you that extra motivation and reward at the end. 

      3. Right now, I'm trying to improve La Catedral (Preludio saudade). Besides that, I have Villa Lobos Prelude 4 and tons of other pieces on my wishlist.

      4. Besides technique, my biggest challenge is musicality, particularly phrasing. I need to have better harmonic understanding of music.

      Another challenge is being consistent in performance. I often get stuck at some difficult passages in a piece and struggle to play through.

      With tone quality, I'm fairly satisfied although I'd like to use more variation and subtlety. I still continue to experiment with nail shape (as nail shape is very important in producing a good tone) and using varying angles of attack on the string.

      4. Actually, there are many pieces that I've been trying to finish upto performance level. Villa Lobos Prelude and a few other pieces.

      Your choice of Gymnopedie No.1 is a great beginner level piece. There are other pieces like Lagrima, Spanish Romance, Etude in E minor by Tarrega you can explore. But some pieces that are often labelled beginner level are actually grade 4/5 pieces. I discovered this myself when I first tried to learn these pieces. 

      6. Currently I'm playing a factory made Yamaha CG 182S.

      7. I'd love to own a Luthier made Cedar top. I've heard that the tone of a Cedar top is very warm and sweet. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the quality or brand/maker of handmade ones. I guess any guitar that's been crafted by a skilled luthier would be great.

      Incredibly long post. I apologise if I've written too much and sound like rambling. But thanks for reading.

      And I wish you a happy and great learning journey with the classical guitar.

      Cheers.

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Thanks for replying and opening up the door, so to speak. I enjoyed reading your "incredibly long post."

    • LIVE
    • martin.3
    • 3 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Michelle, I love that you posted this. The forum tends to fill up with people working on Bach fugues and Villa-Lobos etudes, which is great, but there's an entire layer of the community at your stage that doesn't always speak up — and you all have the most interesting questions in the room.

    Quick answers from me to get the ball rolling for anyone reading:

    4. Biggest challenge with classical guitar — for me it was (and still is) the right hand. The left hand will let you get away with murder; the right hand exposes everything.

    5. Piece I'd want to be playing in a year — I want to get back into a beautiful concert repertoire that involves some goodies by Barrios which I've abandoned a long time ago. But there's so much more!

    6. Dream guitar — One guitar? I want more! I'd love to have something that just plays suuuuper easily, like a Smallman — but I adore the sound of an old Hauser, Romanillos, or Friedrich.

    Anyone else at Grade 1–3? Jump in. Michelle just opened the door.

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Thank you for posting! To my eyes (and ears) your right hand moves so smoothly and accurately, and your challenge is a surprise.

    • Eric
    • 3 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Well, if  is in grades 1-3, I must be in grade negative 47.

    Here are my responses:

    1. Did you complete the Tonebase Beginning Guitar course, part 1? I have not.

    2. Did you take any examination(s)? In college, almost forty years ago.

    3, What's on your music stand? Schubert's Standchen (arr. Mertz)

    4. What do you believe is your biggest challenge with classical guitar? Like Martin, the right hand. For the last several years, I have developed a problem with my index finger (maybe focal dystonia?) so I am always trying to find a way to play things while minimizing the use of this finger. But even before that, my right hand technique was always my weak spot. I played guitar for about six years with a pick, so I have always blamed that as the reason. But by now, the real reason is probably more about lack of disciplined focus.

    5. What piece(s) would you like to be playing in a year? I really do not operate this way. There are a million pieces I'd love to be able to play, but experience tells me that I really have no idea what I will be playing. Whatever it is, I am confident that I will love it.

    6. What guitar(s) are you playing right now? I have had the same guitar since about 1989. It's a 1973 Hernandis that I bought from a friend for $400 I think. I always say that it's nothing special, but it's very special to me. I don't get a chance to pick up other classical guitars very often, but when I do, I always wish they felt more like mine.

    7. What guitar would be your dream guitar? I suppose some expensive, luthier-built instrument would be great, but unless I win the lottery, that is not likely to happen. I would love to have a Romantic guitar, since I spend so much time playing music of the 19th century, but again, that's more of a dream than reality.

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I picked up so many "bad habits" from acoustic guitar. But they were more left hand related, like gripping the neck and wrapping my thumb around. My first teacher was classically trained (Suzuki method) and she taught me right hand technique, although I didn't realize it at the time.

      • Palmer
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I had a hernandis back in those days too. Loved it. I loaned it for a brief period to a good friend in the 90s and haven't seen it since.

    • Amateur guitarist/lutenist
    • David_Krupka
    • 3 days ago
    • Reported - view

    I'm also not a beginner, but I too will join the discussion.

    1. I watched the beginner courses and took from them what I found useful. I had joined ToneBase as what might be called (by analogy with Aaron Shearer's notion of the 'remedial' student) a 'rehabilitational' student. I needed to relearn how to use my left hand, and because I had never given  any real consideration to the mechanics of guitar playing, I wanted a clear model to follow. The various foundational material here at ToneBase has been invaluable for me in this respect.

    2. I have never taken a guitar exam. I'm opposed in principle to the idea of performance examinations, although I do appreciate that some people find them very helpful as a means of guiding their study. Having said that, I do find anthologies (or even simple lists) of graded repertoire to be useful.

    3. At the moment, I have the entire series of graded RCM repertoire books on my 'music stand'. (A table, actually.) I also keep an iPad with a l large library of scores (mostly of 19th c. music) close at hand.

    4. For me personally, the biggest challenge over the past while has been getting my left hand to function properly. More generally, I have always found difficult left hand 'stretches' to present the greatest hurdle to playing guitar well.

    5. Just like  I don't have a particular repertoire goal that I actively pursue. I enjoy learning/playing a variety of music, mostly of an intermediate standard. I like 'discovering' pieces that I have I never heard before. I generally devote real effort only to those pieces that I think (hope?) that I will be able to play reasonably well. I have no interest in anything that smacks of virtuosity. (Of course, I do admire those guitarists who can perform such pieces - I just don't care to do so myself.)

    6. I own a number of guitars. My default practice guitar is a rather old (mid seventies) instrument built by Japanese luthier Ryoji Matsuoka. For early 19th c. repertoire (Sor, Giuliani, et al.) I use a modern copy of a romantic era guitar.

    7. My wish-list consists mostly of historical models. I would love to have have a seven-string guitar of the type used by Napoleon Coste. (Or almost any of the original instruments available though David Jacques.) Although a good luthier-made guitar can be a real pleasure to play, I have no particular desire to own one: I just don't have the kind of skill that would require such an instrument.

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Pardon my ignorance, but what is a romantic era guitar? Is it smaller? Or braced differently? I guess I need to do a better job of learning guitar history.

      • Amateur guitarist/lutenist
      • David_Krupka
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       The earliest form of the six-string guitar (which emerged in the last quarter of the 18th century) is now generally referred to as 'romantic' - a modern descriptor, not a historical term. (The first 'modern' guitars are usually associated with the work of Antonio Torres, an important Spanish luthier whose professional career began in the 1850s.) There was no standard design for early guitars. They were generally smaller bodied instruments with scale lengths that were somewhat shorter today's norm of 650 mm. (Eduardo Fernandez, in a video here on ToneBase, estimates that the historical average was about 640 mm, but smaller instruments certainly existed.) Necks were also narrower, meaning that string spacing was somewhat tighter. Because of their smaller size, they are, in my limited experience, easier to play than modern guitars. Originally these instruments would have been gut strung, so they would have sounded quite different than modern nylon strung guitars. Today, because gut is expensive and rather fragile, most players use a synthetic substitute known as nylgut, which has its own distinct sound. (I recently purchased a single set of gut strings for my guitar, but I haven't yet worked up the courage to actually use them!) If you're interested in hearing a variety of romantic era guitars 'in action' I recommend checking out the YT channel of Canadian specialist David Jacques.

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       Thank you! I'll definitely check out David Jacques. Yes, please try the gut strings and record a before and after and post. That would be interesting to hear!

      I may have a modern version of a romantic era guitar, but don't play it because of the string spacing. It's a Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm, 48mm nut. A slightly thinner body but a big, beautiful tone. Very easy to play, though my fat fingers prefer the other two I own. 

      • Amateur guitarist/lutenist
      • David_Krupka
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       I've played a few Hill guitars in a local music shop - they're very nice! I'm not familiar with the model you have, but I suspect it's similar to (but of higher quality than) the Aria 19N, a guitar which I do own. Despite being described as a '19th c. style guitar' and having similar dimensions to historic instruments, the Aria 19N is in fact thoroughly modern in its construction and sounds like a modern guitar. (Compared to my replica, it is heavily built and (I suspect) differently braced. It is also heavily varnished, something not seen on early guitars.) Concerning the string spacing, I suspect you would adapt to it if you used the guitar more often. That at least that has been my experience, and I have fairly broad fingers. You make a great suggestion about documenting the difference between nylgut and true gut. I've been meaning for a long time to begin a 'practice diary' here at ToneBase, so I'll try to upload something demonstrating the nylgut in the coming days. (No promises for the moment on how soon I'll get around using the gut, though ...)

    • Retired
    • Jim_king
    • 3 days ago
    • Reported - view

    I am relatively new to classical music.  Joined Tonebase in December 2022 and have also used some other classical guitar sites since then to learn technique and applying it to repertoire.

    1.      Yes, I completed the TB Beginner Guitar courses part 1 and 2.

    2.      No exams.  Done enough exams in my lifetime I have no desire to do anymore.

    3.      Currently I have it down to Pachelbel Canon in D, Tarrega Study in C, Carulli Andantino Op. 241 No. 5 and Adrian Le Roy La Tirantine.  Two of these pieces (Study and La Tirantine are pieces I can play but I have returned to them to work on their musicality).  The other two are newer pieces.  I used to work on more pieces at a time, but have found 3-4 is a good number for me.

    4.      Probably my biggest challenge is my right hand technique.  About a month ago, I went back to the fundamental lessons on the right hand to re-study how to play properly.  This has helped.  Other challenges include keeping a steady beat throughout a piece when not using a metronome, playing at the suggested tempo, and playing musically (dynamics, legato, and so on).

    5.      I generally don’t think about pieces I want to play in a year’s time.  There is so much classical guitar music out there that I don’t know, so I often let a few different sites that have graded repertoire guide my choices.  This way I’m playing material that is appropriate for my level, and if properly graded, will push me enough to keep me motivated.  I also like returning to previously learned pieces and work on improving them.

    6.      I have two classical guitars.  My first one is an entry level guitar made by Almansa. I bought this at a national instrument store that had lots of entry level guitars and this one had the best sound at a low price point.  Once I determined that I was going to stick with classical guitar, I purchased a Ramirez SPR.  This has become my primary instrument.

    7.      I don’t have a dream guitar.  My Ramirez is a good quality guitar for my purposes (which is primarily for my own self-interest).

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       Thanks for posting. You seem to be doing well for someone new to classical guitar. I don't know La Tirantine and will look it up. I don't think I'll ever be working on just 3-4 pieces. My TB coach has encouraged me to do a recital and I have 12 pieces that I'll be working on for the next 6-7 weeks. I think he did that to STOP me from adding more pieces to my practice. There always seems to be a shiny, new melody that catches my attention, and I want to learn it. 

      • Retired
      • Jim_king
      • 2 days ago
      • Reported - view

       I know what you mean when you say that "there always seems to be a shiny, new melody that catches my attention, and I want to learn it".  I'm like that too but have fought my urge to do everything.  I think the most I was up to was 8, but I found that progress with that many was too slow for my liking.  So eventually I whittled it down to 3 or 4 at a time now.  Doing 12 at once given that you are preparing for a recital, however, does make sense as well.  Good luck in the recital.

    • Palmer
    • 2 days ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Michelle, great questions!

    1. I did not all the way through, though have looked at parts where I feel I might be wanting.

    2. No examinations since college in the late 70s.

    3. I'm currently working on Tres Colores Porteños by Claudia Montero

    4. So many challenges ;) keeping my hands relaxed is what I pay most attention to right now.

    5. In a year, in a perfect world where my progress is amazing, Armando's Rhumba by Chick Corea.

    6. I'm playing a guitar by Henner Hagenlocher and a Buscarino Cabaret.

    7. I'd like to have my Sergio Abreu repaired soon.

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • Yesterday
      • Reported - view

       You're certainly no beginner but thank you for sharing your answers. Playing anything by Chick Corea is beyond my imagining. I hope you do!

    • Nijwm_Bwiswmuthiary
    • 7 hrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Wow, after a relatively slow start, this thread is gaining traction! It's really great to see     and so many other fellow guitarists here.

    Can I ask you all for a guitar buying guide? I want a good cedar top guitar, ideally a Luthier made (within a budget of $1500 roughly, if possible). I like warm sounding guitars, with easy playability. Currently I own a yamaha factory made CG182S. Unfortunately, I don't have many guitar outlets near my place, but perhaps I can import one in the future.

      • “Do or do not. There is no try”
      • Michelle_P
      • 5 hrs ago
      • Reported - view

       I hope you find what you are looking for. I recently bought a used luthier-made guitar (by Darren R. Hippner) in that range. With shipping and tax it cost just under $1600. So, I know they are out there.

Content aside

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